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Subject: Required defence spending
EssexBoy    9/14/2007 1:21:12 PM
This is just for the sake of an argument. I've been reading a few articles recently about the Wanless report on the NHS and was surprised by just how much extra we're spending on healthcare each year. For 2006/07 spending was just over £40bn higher than it was in 2000/01. Leaving aside the question of how well this has been spent, I was wondering how much of this increase would have been required to be switched to the annual defence budget to keep the top brass (and armchair generals) happy. Anybody care to estimate how much extra (over and above actual and currently predicted spending) would be needed to do the following: Navy Order 2 CVFs in CATOBAR fit, 8 Hawkeyes, (say) 90 F35Cs, plus 12 Merlins. Order 12 fully kitted out (ie with MK41 VLS, TACTOMS, Harpoons and ILMS) T45s. Order an additional LPH and two more LSD(A)s. Maintain a 18 strong frigate force to be replaced on a one for one basis by fsc. Start building 8 C3 type Oceanic PVs. Start placing orders for the MARS vessels. Order Astute boats 4 to 8. Army Reverse cut in infantry battalions - back to 40 battallions. Re-open a dedicated military hospital. Order more battlefield Helicopters (not sure of required numbers - take a guess). Supply adequate number of MRAP type vehicles. Order a fleet of helicopters dedicated for medevac. Replace SA80 with G36. RAF Order Tranche 3 Eurofighters. Order 60 odd F35Bs. Order replacements for tanker fleet. Order another 6 C17s. Re-start FOAS programme. Feel free to add anything I've missed off. I appreciate that a lot of the above will be acquired over a period of time, but roughly how much of that £40bn increase in healthcare spending would be required each year?
 
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Armchair Private    errata   9/25/2007 3:00:36 PM
   
I wouldn't be surprised that politicians could fritter away any amount of money with no noticable effect.

More defence capability then.
LSCs - £11bn
RDAs - £3bn

 
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EssexBoy    Conservative's policy   10/3/2007 1:23:02 PM
I didn't hear the speach as I was at work but here's the Torygraph's summary:
 
 
Pathetic. If they were committed to the Forces they'd say "we need to increase defence spending by £Xbn so we will put your taxes up by that amount" or "these are the areas where we will make £10bn of cuts". Anything else is just bullsh*t and I've heard it all before.
 
(Atleast the LibDems are honest - we'll keep spending roughly where it is but won't get involved in the next disaster).
 
Essex
 
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EssexBoy    Comprehensive Spending Review   10/9/2007 2:21:58 PM
As expected the Mod have been handed fairly small year on year increases to 2011.
 
 
Here are the projected figures for Defence, Health and Social Security:
Defence - £33.2bn (07/08) £36.7bn (10/11)
Health - £89.7bn (07/08) £106.4bn (10/11)
Social Security - £139bn (07/08) £158bn (10/11)
 
Good grief - you'd think they'd be able to find £5bn for defence out of the last two budgets.
 
Anyone want to take a bet we only get one carrier?
 
Essex
 
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bob the brit       10/9/2007 2:26:54 PM
Anyone want to take a bet we only get one carrier?
 
 
wow, wow, wow
 
 
best not be too optimistic now
 
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AdamB       10/11/2007 5:09:28 PM
China spends less of its GDP on defence than Britain.
 
Britain spends $72.8 billion on defence (2.2% of its GDP).  More than any country except the US.
 
China spends $44.94 billion.
 
Britain's economy is $2.660 trillion.  China's is a tiny bit larger: $2.68 trillion.
 
So Britain very much spends more, as a percentage of its economy, than China on defence.
 
The Chancellor, Alistair Darling, will increase Britain's defence spending to £37 billion by 2010.  That means Britain will be spending around $74 billion-$75 billion on defence by 2010.
 
He will also allocate an additional £400 million for operations this year.

This is on top of the increase in the defence budget to £37 billion by 2010, which will provide over £500 million worth of investment for improvements in accommodation for members of the armed forces and their families.
 
This means this is the longest period of rising investment in the defence of Britain for almost 30 years.

 
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AdamB       10/11/2007 5:15:13 PM
Britain also spends more of its GDP on military than India.  India spends just 1.97% of its GDP on defence - almost $26 billion.
 
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EssexBoy       10/12/2007 1:25:15 PM

China spends less of its GDP on defence than Britain.

 

Britain spends $72.8 billion on defence (2.2% of its GDP).  More than any country except the US.

 

China spends $44.94 billion.

 

Britain's economy is $2.660 trillion.  China's is a tiny bit larger: $2.68 trillion.

 

So Britain very much spends more, as a percentage of its economy, than China on defence.

 

The Chancellor, Alistair Darling, will increase Britain's defence spending to £37 billion by 2010.  That means Britain will be spending around $74 billion-$75 billion on defence by 2010.

 

He will also allocate an additional £400 million for operations this year.

This is on top of the increase in the defence budget to £37 billion by 2010, which will provide over £500 million worth of investment for improvements in accommodation for members of the armed forces and their families.

 

This means this is the longest period of rising investment in the defence of Britain for almost 30 years.


 

The point is that defence spending dropped in real terms by 23% between 1990 and 2000, so it's going to take more than real term increases of 1.5% p.a. to get us back on track.

h**p://www.york.ac.uk/depts/econ/documents/research/defence.pdf
 
Also, the comparisons with other countries aren't really that helpful. The key question is are we spending enough to enable our armed forces to do the tasks we set them? The answer is currently "no".
 
Essex.

 
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Lawman       10/12/2007 4:13:52 PM
Actually, your comparisons of GDP spending with China are deeply flawed, as they do not actually factor in real spending, only official spending. China actually spends a much higher percentage of GDP, as a lot of its defence spending is disguised as other spending, e.g. business investment, social programs etc... China spends a huge amount of money on defence, it just doesn't get listed as defence spending.
 
Also, 2.2% of GDP for a country at war is pretty worrying, and another £400m will not cover operations costs, which means more and more cuts, year on year.
 
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AdamB       10/12/2007 6:34:37 PM




 
The key question is are we spending enough to enable our armed forces to do the tasks we set them? The answer is currently "no".

 

Essex.




I believe we are.  How many times recently have British forces gone abroad and failed in most of their objectives?  Not many. 
 
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BLUIE006       10/23/2007 10:14:28 AM
Navy

2 CVFs , 4 UK Hawkeyes, 24  EA-18G, 72 F35Cs,24 F-35B,UCAVs
10 T45 AWD
6 TXX Cruiser -Fully kitted out (ie with AGS  MK41 VLS, TACTOMS/CX, Harpoon II- ER and ILMS) 
Order an additional LPH. 2 LHD,LSD(A)s. 
20 FSC/Future Frigate 
Start building 8 C3 type Oceanic PVs.
Start placing orders for the MARS vessels.
Astute 8.

 
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