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Subject: New Regimental/battalion role specialization
Worcester    2/2/2005 11:55:47 PM
Has anyone seen a breakdown of the ORBAT for the infantry battalion role specialization by light/medium/heavy? I note the CGS said last week that battalions within the Field Army brigade org would now increase from 19 to 23 presumable with the new fixed roles. It's fairly easy to figure out the slots available but I wondered if anyone knows who will go where precisely?
 
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perfectgeneral    RE:Recon and 1 Para   4/7/2005 6:55:59 AM
What is going on with the parachute regiment and special forces? Is Recon a totally new unit? What will the paras do to make up for 1 Para being joined to SF? Will 1 Para move to Hereford? Will this affect recruitment?
 
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Yimmy    RE:Recon and 1 Para   4/7/2005 10:40:59 AM
me/ slaps perfectgeneral Its recce not recon! :D
 
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Worcester    RE:Recon and 1 Para   4/7/2005 6:52:11 PM
1. SRR was mentioned as a key requirement in July 2004 by CGS Gen Carver. It is being formed around the existing 14 Intelligence Company ("14 Int", the deep cover operators and recon experts in Northern Ireland and Bosnia). It's a 200 person (male/female, tri-service) Intelligence Corps unit expert in penetrating terrorist cells, running/turning enemy agents and conducting extreme close recon. It may grow to 300 to form out SRR. Its headquarters will relocate from Lisburn, N.I. to Hereford. CGS has said that infiltration of cells cannot be done simply by dressing up as a bush; 14 Int are the people who do this...different skill set from SAS....requires all officer/NCO teams.
 
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Worcester    RE:Recon and 1 Para.... and 2.   4/7/2005 7:30:26 PM
Yes; it was stated in the 2004 White Paper that an SF support gp was required. 1 para will leave the Line Infantry and move to Hereford under Dir SF Gp. But it will be a very different 1 Para with different role, organziation, equipment and people; it will be tri_service as well which makes sense for the job, and it may well get remamed in time as well. As for the Parachute Regiment...good question. The Regiment has been at the bottom end of recruiting for a while (indeed at -6% it was more undermanned than 4 of the 6 Scottish Regiments now being amalgamated). Indeed they already use Gurkha and Guards reinforcement troops in all three battallions. Moving 1 Para to SFG should improve the manning levels in 2 and 3 Para in the short term by taking those in 1 Para who dont make the "cut" for SF Support (1 Para will become an open competition slot)...but you have to wonder if the two remaining battallions with a choice of Colchester or Colchester will really attract the best candidates when all the new super large regiments are offering varied careers and multiple postings. I wonder if they'll go back to having infantry "divisional/brigade" parachute companies recruited from the line regiments - e.g Kings Division Para Coy, Scots Div Para Coy etc.). Worked well before the Para Regt became direct recruited. Certainly the Guards have started the ball rolling with the Guards Platoon in 3 Para which might become a full Guards company in time. Ironic really since the old Guards Indepedent Parachute Company were the elite Pathfinder unit for 16th Parachute Brigade and were then converted to G Squadron 22 SAS in 1966; now the Paras are leaning on the Guards again. Of course, the real problem is the other Line Regiments dont like losing their best soldiers. Who would choose Colchester for their entire carrer?
 
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perfectgeneral    RE:Recon and 1 Para.... and 2.   4/8/2005 5:03:45 AM
Ouch! Yimmy I did say I was a bit vague on this. Recce/Recon it's a Greek helmet and short sword unit innit (that's what the badge says to me)? On the matter of shortfall in recruiting for the paras...why not just base the parachute regiment in Cyprus? Seriously though, the prospect of Colchester forever has to stop. Perhaps the possibilty of Hereford will be enough, but I doubt it. If 1 Para is a SF support group then it is no longer 1 Para and should be renamed something more accurate. If the recruitment problems of the regiment are ever solved then a new 1 Para should be built up.
 
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perfectgeneral    RE:slaps perfectgeneral   4/8/2005 5:06:39 AM
Sorry Yimmy, in my first draft I stated that I was hazey on this (and it showed), but this failed to post and it was lost from the second draft of the post.
 
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Worcester    RE:Recon and 1 Para.... and 2.   4/8/2005 12:02:50 PM
"If the recruitment problems are ever solved a new 1 Para should be built up..." Why? The new regimental structure has created three NEW branches of permanent, expert battallions...armd, mech and light. No doubt the permanent Light Role battallions will become as elite as they were when first formed 200 years ago (a new "Rifle Brigade"?) and will be looking to take over many of the roles from the Para Regt. Why else are there 2 light bn in 16 Bde and 4 in 19 Bde. I think you'll find these six Light Formation battallions and their "loose" unassigned role cousins will start providing platoons or even companies for the Para Regt on attachment for 2-3 years and the Para Regt/air assault per se will merely become a career secondment/specialism within the Light community.
 
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Worcester    RE:Light Fighters...   4/8/2005 12:10:20 PM
For example I wouldnt be surprised (no confirmation, but thats why I've asked the question here) if 1 RGJ became a permanent 16 Bde unit. After all the antecedents are as good as any in the Para Regt since the Ox & Bucks Light Infantry (now 1 RGJ) were the first Airborne unit - indeed THE first Allied unit - to land on D-Day, by glider, seizing the Orne Canal bridge ("Pegasus Bridge") to secure the eastern link between British 6th Airborne and the beachhead. RGJ still have Pegasus Bridge on their cap badge...and they're not Para Regt. Plenty of other regiments who can claim excellent airborne experience.
 
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neutralizer    RE:Light Fighters...   4/9/2005 7:36:43 AM
I think the CGS, who is of course Para Regt, has stated that the SF spt role will rotate among the para bns, but that may be a misinterpretation of rotating people. Incidently Carver was CGS in 19canteen and died a couple of years ago. 14 Int Coy is not Int Corps (although the CGS originally was) despite the name, it recruits both sexes from Army, RM, RN and RAF and, IIRC, is always commanded by a LTC who has served in the SAS. It's not clear if SRR is going to continue this ecumenical tradition. I think just having a cap badge is going to be a big enough culture shock. However, having been developing the concept for over 30 years its probably time to regularise it, but perhaps they're going to wait for the new Tri-service Discipline Act to be passed.
 
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Worcester    RE:Light Fighters...   4/12/2005 1:14:38 PM
Did I write Carver? Hell, showing my age! Jacko of course. CGS Jacko said (and wrote) 1 Para to be SF Spt...NO rotation to other Para bn. And 14 Int is under the Intel Corps ORBAT..someone has to pay the wages and do the book-keeping...even though it is tasked to Lisburn. And as for SAS COs, that is NOT a regular posting...there have been others. BTW not just 30 years, since 14Int and its predecessor was involved against EOKA and included luminaries from the Kitson school. More like 50 years. I find it odd that it would get this sort of publicity.
 
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