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Subject: goodbye truth
sofa    7/15/2007 12:15:28 PM
BROWN: DON'T SAY TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIMS Tuesday July 3,2007 By Macer Hall, Political Editor Gordon Brown has banned ministers from using the word “Muslim” in connection with the terrorism crisis. The Prime Minister has also instructed his team – including new Home Secretary Jacqui Smith – that the phrase “war on terror” is to be dropped. The shake-up is part of a fresh attempt to improve community relations and avoid offending Muslims, adopting a more “consensual” tone than existed under Tony Blair. However, the change provoked claims last night that ministers are indulging in yet more political correctness. The sudden shift in tone emerged in comments by Mr Brown and Ms Smith in the wake of the failed attacks in London and Glasgow. Mr Brown’s spokesman acknowledged yesterday that ministers had been given specific guidelines to avoid inflammatory language. “There is clearly a need to strike a consensual tone in relation to all communities across the UK,” the spokesman said. “It is important that the country remains united.” He confirmed that the phrase “war on terror” – strongly associated with Mr Blair and US President George Bush – has been dropped. Officials insist that no direct links with Muslim extremists have been publicly confirmed by police investigating the latest attempted terror attacks. Mr Brown himself did not refer to Muslims or Islam once in a BBC TV interview on Sunday. Ms Smith also avoided any such reference in her statement to MPs yesterday. She said: “Let us be clear – terrorists are criminals, whose victims come from all walks of life, communities and religions. Terrorists attack the values shared by all law-abiding citizens. As a Government, as communities, as individuals, we need to ensure that the message of the terrorists is rejected.” Tory backbencher Philip Davies said: “I don’t know what purpose is served by this. I don’t think we need pussyfoot around when talking about terrorism.” But former Tory homeland security spokesman Patrick Mercer said: “This is quite a smart idea. We know that the vast majority of Muslims are not involved in terrorism and we have to accept there are sensitivities about these matters.”
 
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00_Chem_AJB       7/15/2007 7:56:17 PM
I don't think it's Yimmy, I think it's this country as a whole, there is a massive usage of political correctness, which as he stated doesn't agree with, nor do I. Also there is our attitude to discrimination, and our "effort" to try and avoid being discriminate towards every one, the  goal of making a society where every one can get along(which will never happen) and not being accused of being a member of the fascist BNP. I personally don't call these terrorists muslim, I don't even call them human, but I do recognise that this strand of terrorism has Islamic roots, but people wont say that out of fear of being accused of racism, or as the Government is concerned, possibly inflaming tensions with the UK's muslim communities and creating more violence. It is true though that we aren't at war with a country, we are at war with a life style, not shared by every one, but with a lot of people.
 
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sofa       7/15/2007 7:57:36 PM
"If you read the Bible you will find the Old Testament full of violence, and the promotion of violence, "an eye for an eye", and all that.  Yet, nobody is suggesting all Christians are terrorists and want to take over the world.  Quite the opposite, most Christians are peaceful."
 
That's because 'christians' refers to christ. A guy who "tore the old cloth" and taught a NEW WAY, a new testament. That would be christianity, which became a large portion of the philoophical underpinnig of western civilization.
 
Which is distinct from the Old testament you cite. That would be the OLD testament. As in NOT Christianity.
 
That line of reasoning is frequently used by muslims and agnostics who have no understanding of christianity: So are you a muslim then? Are you a westerner, or a recent immigrant to the west? To so misrepresent christianity makes one wonder.
 
So you don' know much about christianity or islam. Do you have anything to contribute on the topic of the government sticking the countries head in the sand and arse up for islam?
 
 
 
 
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sofa       7/15/2007 8:09:35 PM

[...]Also there is our attitude to discrimination, and our "effort" to try and avoid being discriminate towards every one, the  goal of making a society where every one can get along(which will never happen) and not being accused of being a member of the fascist BNP. [...]

It is good that we worry about discrimination as a bad trait amongst ourselves. But it is also wrong to ignore the truth, and to sacrifice our civilization because we're trying not to offend. They are set on destroying our way of life, including and especially the multiculturalism and freedom of speech and thought which we embrace. They are killing in an ever expanding ring of fire, and many are frozen by fear of offending. Rather die than offend.
 
But murder and terror is not a culture.  It's murder and terror, and should be stopped..
 
 
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00_Chem_AJB       7/15/2007 8:15:32 PM

Which is distinct from the Old testament you cite. That would be the OLD testament. As in NOT Christianity.
 
 

 
And you still get the wakos who believe that the world was created in 6 days.
 
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sofa       7/15/2007 8:16:30 PM
"In effect you are spreading race hatred, which is a criminal offence under UK law."
 
No one has been discussing race, except when I mentioned the race at Talledega. And the one time you mentioned it wasn't really race related.
 
The topic was MR Brown with his arse up in the air.
Any comment on topic?
Any rationale for your position?
Or is it just more "feelings"...
 
 
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00_Chem_AJB       7/15/2007 8:21:10 PM
Welcome to New Liberalism, It's true it's not a culture, it's a lifestyle, and that's what makes it so hard to fight, as people believe in this, and it will take alot of Groznyesc landscapes to break this beliefe, and alot of people aren't prepared to let that happen, personaly if we bombed the middle east into sand and rock, I probably wont care, as it doesn't directly effect me, and before people start saying I'm a heartless bastard, ask yourself if you really care about all those civilians and soliders who get killed in today's on going conflicts.
 
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Armchair Private       7/15/2007 8:26:47 PM



Sofa, it is excellent that you are able to partake in freedom of speech and expression to such a degree.  In all seriousness however, you sound like a racist bigot with an axe to grind.  If you can't tell the difference between a muderous terrorist, and peaceful practitioners of a religion, or otherwise feel the need to paint the whole with the same tainted brush of the few, you clearly are small minded to say the least.  Go away.


There you go again, Yimmy. Same old bankrupt bleeeding-heart, argument, same old tunnel vision, same old accusations [yimmy  accused me of racism many moon-goddesses ago, on the Israeli board, because I made the comment that the PALIS - and the use of the word itself - because he didnt agree that the Israelis had a right to defend themselves against ISLAMIC TERRORISM, and didnt apply a Grozny-like solution to Gaza, as would be ANY country's right. ]

He ALSO doesnt understand that ISLAM IS NOT A RACE, so his accusations are baseless - you  can't be accused of racism towards a religion - it's specious reasoning, if you can conflate such a bogus accusation with "reasoning." It's intended to shame the recipient of the charge, and end the conversation. Can you detest, despise and oppose the tenets and adherents of a religious belief and philosophy without being called a racist?  Certainly.  Can that make you Racist?  NO. Bigotted and Prejudiced? Again, certainly, but so what?

 

There is a difference behind prejudice, which is based on emotion, and making a judgement against a religion based on its OWN teachings, writings AND ACTIONS - it's called using logic. That is NOT prejudice or bigotry, but conclusions based upon cold hard analysis, as inconveniently truthful as those like Yimmy would rather not admit nor acknowledge. Yimmy is making an appeal to emotion, with an emotional arugument, like most liberals do. NOT based on logic at all. Kinda what Whoopi Goldberg said to Bill O'Reilly said, when he challeged/asked her why she thought the current policy by the administration towards Iraq was wrong. She couldnt give a logical answer, and instead admitted that her response was purely emotional. But that that was ok.

 

If you want further proof on the pervasiveness and depth of the radical Islam = mainstream practices of Islam, consult MEMRI.org, which translates the words in writing and in speeches of the so-called "religion of peace" into English, so that the layperson can read for themselves. To deny that this radicalization of Islam is NOT prevalent is to bury your head in the sand, butt up, and beg to be taken - voluntarily.

 

 

swhitebull - oh, btw, Yimmy, your line accusing sofa of not reading what he writes is a repeated assertion on your part, since you've used it verbatim with me. I'm sure you can be a little more original than that.

There you go again Swhitebull same old liberal lefty soft as putty approach to all these things, you and sofa argue about WORDS! Typical left wing daily kos reading Americans....

In the good old UK we know that actions speak louder than words, thats why:

*its impossible to move anywhere in the UK (except the countryside) without being viewed by hundreds of CCTV cameras. (And I do mean hundreds)

*Why you can be held under terrorism law for 28 days without charge, the government is looking to extend this to 90 days you will be pleased to know.

*if thats not enough we have "control orders" of course. This is house arrest in fact. The government uses this when it can't be bothered with the effort to go to trial. There is no limit to how long people can be kept under this of course.

*you can't protest anywhere near parliament, and when i say that I mean you can get arrested carrying a placard, on your own walking the pavement (sidewalk) being totally quiet.

*Most CCTV is being wired up to be automatic number plate recognition capable (APR), this means that every journey in every vehicle will be tracked, logged and processed on massive databases to make sure we're all keeping on the straight and narrow.

*There is no digital privacy, even the local council - the body that collects the rubbish and funds municipal swiming baths - can ask to see Yimmy's or my entire digital history if it wishes, there is no need for them to have any expectations or suspicion that Yimmy has committed a crime or even might do, they can just do it if their curious, or bored. Same for every other public body.

*we're getting rid of trial by jury in some cases, you know it'
 
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00_Chem_AJB       7/15/2007 8:29:11 PM
Ok sofa, getting back the point, my view on this is open, these changes are only a few weeks old, really we'll have to see if it bears fruit, and what fruit it bears, and that may take a while, however time isn't exactly an ally, however as far as PR goes, it's probably better then a "crackdown" responce.
 
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sofa       7/15/2007 8:29:53 PM
"...ask yourself if you really care about all those civilians and soliders who get killed in today's on going conflicts."
 
Yes. I do.
 
We are fighting against evil. Pure evil. And doing it to save our way of life and our children. You heartless punks get a free ride because good men are willing to die for what they believe in. You slackers are unworthy.
 
 
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Armchair Private       7/15/2007 8:34:17 PM

Ok sofa, getting back the point, my view on this is open, these changes are only a few weeks old, really we'll have to see if it bears fruit, and what fruit it bears, and that may take a while, however time isn't exactly an ally, however as far as PR goes, it's probably better then a "crackdown" responce.


"crackdown" responce

See above.
 
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