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Subject: goodbye truth
sofa    7/15/2007 12:15:28 PM
BROWN: DON'T SAY TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIMS Tuesday July 3,2007 By Macer Hall, Political Editor Gordon Brown has banned ministers from using the word “Muslim” in connection with the terrorism crisis. The Prime Minister has also instructed his team – including new Home Secretary Jacqui Smith – that the phrase “war on terror” is to be dropped. The shake-up is part of a fresh attempt to improve community relations and avoid offending Muslims, adopting a more “consensual” tone than existed under Tony Blair. However, the change provoked claims last night that ministers are indulging in yet more political correctness. The sudden shift in tone emerged in comments by Mr Brown and Ms Smith in the wake of the failed attacks in London and Glasgow. Mr Brown’s spokesman acknowledged yesterday that ministers had been given specific guidelines to avoid inflammatory language. “There is clearly a need to strike a consensual tone in relation to all communities across the UK,” the spokesman said. “It is important that the country remains united.” He confirmed that the phrase “war on terror” – strongly associated with Mr Blair and US President George Bush – has been dropped. Officials insist that no direct links with Muslim extremists have been publicly confirmed by police investigating the latest attempted terror attacks. Mr Brown himself did not refer to Muslims or Islam once in a BBC TV interview on Sunday. Ms Smith also avoided any such reference in her statement to MPs yesterday. She said: “Let us be clear – terrorists are criminals, whose victims come from all walks of life, communities and religions. Terrorists attack the values shared by all law-abiding citizens. As a Government, as communities, as individuals, we need to ensure that the message of the terrorists is rejected.” Tory backbencher Philip Davies said: “I don’t know what purpose is served by this. I don’t think we need pussyfoot around when talking about terrorism.” But former Tory homeland security spokesman Patrick Mercer said: “This is quite a smart idea. We know that the vast majority of Muslims are not involved in terrorism and we have to accept there are sensitivities about these matters.”
 
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sofa       7/15/2007 6:31:07 PM
Peaceful germans are still upset about all the destruction 60 years ago. They were just good hard working folks, working at the factories and contributing to their infrastructure and teaching their kids about facism and sending them into the youth programs. Then a few 'bad germans' caused all this trouble. ...
 
At some point Yimmy, you will recognize it as facism rather than a 'religion' in the western sense. Until then, keep pretending.  It might be instructive to read about this guy Mohammed and his ideas about being a good muslim.
 
If urging you to read makes me a biggot, then ...
 
 
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sofa       7/15/2007 6:53:54 PM

[..] In all seriousness however, you sound like a racist bigot with an axe to grind.  [...]you clearly are small minded to say the least.  [..]
Racism? which specific race do you speak of? Talladega?
  I'm rather 'multi-cultural' myself, and I don't remember offending myself!
Bigot?
 For calling murderers "murderers".
 For saying that muslims who commit terrorism and proclaim they do it for islam, should be called "Islamic Terrorists".
 For saying that islam is facist, and citing Mohammed and the koran and asking you to read.
 
Beyond the ad hominum attack, where is your argument?
Can you defend your position that Muslim Terrorists should not be called Muslim Terrorists?
 
What should we call them? British militants? South East Asian Extremists? Bad muslims?
 
After the Koran and reading about a guy named Mohammed, I suggest you read about "doublespeak": This guy George Orwell wrote about governments that tell you what to think and what not to think, and about mangling the words to hide the truth.
 
 
 
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swhitebull       7/15/2007 6:55:51 PM

Sofa, it is excellent that you are able to partake in freedom of speech and expression to such a degree.  In all seriousness however, you sound like a racist bigot with an axe to grind.  If you can't tell the difference between a muderous terrorist, and peaceful practitioners of a religion, or otherwise feel the need to paint the whole with the same tainted brush of the few, you clearly are small minded to say the least.  Go away.

There you go again, Yimmy. Same old bankrupt bleeeding-heart, argument, same old tunnel vision, same old accusations [yimmy  accused me of racism many moon-goddesses ago, on the Israeli board, because I made the comment that the PALIS - and the use of the word itself - because he didnt agree that the Israelis had a right to defend themselves against ISLAMIC TERRORISM, and didnt apply a Grozny-like solution to Gaza, as would be ANY country's right. ]
He ALSO doesnt understand that ISLAM IS NOT A RACE, so his accusations are baseless - you  can't be accused of racism towards a religion - it's specious reasoning, if you can conflate such a bogus accusation with "reasoning." It's intended to shame the recipient of the charge, and end the conversation. Can you detest, despise and oppose the tenets and adherents of a religious belief and philosophy without being called a racist?  Certainly.  Can that make you Racist?  NO. Bigotted and Prejudiced? Again, certainly, but so what?
 
There is a difference behind prejudice, which is based on emotion, and making a judgement against a religion based on its OWN teachings, writings AND ACTIONS - it's called using logic. That is NOT prejudice or bigotry, but conclusions based upon cold hard analysis, as inconveniently truthful as those like Yimmy would rather not admit nor acknowledge. Yimmy is making an appeal to emotion, with an emotional arugument, like most liberals do. NOT based on logic at all. Kinda what Whoopi Goldberg said to Bill O'Reilly said, when he challeged/asked her why she thought the current policy by the administration towards Iraq was wrong. She couldnt give a logical answer, and instead admitted that her response was purely emotional. But that that was ok.
 
If you want further proof on the pervasiveness and depth of the radical Islam = mainstream practices of Islam, consult MEMRI.org, which translates the words in writing and in speeches of the so-called "religion of peace" into English, so that the layperson can read for themselves. To deny that this radicalization of Islam is NOT prevalent is to bury your head in the sand, butt up, and beg to be taken - voluntarily.
 
 
swhitebull - oh, btw, Yimmy, your line accusing sofa of not reading what he writes is a repeated assertion on your part, since you've used it verbatim with me. I'm sure you can be a little more original than that.
 
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sofa    doublespeak   7/15/2007 7:00:46 PM
my bad .. posted before checking...


Doublespeak
is language deliberately constructed to disguise its actual meaning, such as euphemisms.

The word doublespeak was coined in the early 1950s. It is often incorrectly attributed to George Orwell and his dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. The word actually never appears in that novel; Orwell did, however, coin Newspeak, Oldspeak, duckspeak (speaking from the throat without thinking 'like a duck') and doublethink (holding "...simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them..."), and his novel made fashionable composite nouns with speak as the second element, which were previously unknown in English. It was therefore just a matter of time before someone came up with doublespeak. Doublespeak may be considered, in Orwell's lexicography, as the B vocabulary of Newspeak, words "deliberately constructed for political purposes: words, that is to say, which not only had in every case a political implication, but were intended to impose a desirable mental attitude upon the person using them."

 
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sofa    The thread is about government doublespeak: The end of Truth   7/15/2007 7:04:35 PM
 

Doublespeak

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Doublespeak is language deliberately constructed to disguise or distort its actual meaning, often resulting in a communication bypass. Such language is often associated with governmental, military, and corporate institutions and its deliberate use by these is what distinguishes it from other euphemisms. Doublespeak may be in the form of bald euphemisms ("downsizing" for "firing of many employees") or deliberately ambiguous phrases ("wet work" for "assassination", "take out" for "destroy").

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[edit] History

The word doublespeak was coined in the early 1950s. It is often incorrectly attributed to George Orwell and his 1948 dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. The word actually never appears in that novel; Orwell did, however, coin newspeak, oldspeak, and doublethink, and his novel made fashionable composite nouns with speak as the second element, which were previously unknown in English. It was therefore just a matter of time before someone came up with doublespeak. Doublespeak may be considered, in Orwell's lexicography, as the B vocabulary of Newspeak, words "deliberately constructed for political purposes: words, that is to say, which not only had in every case a political implication, but were intended to impose a desirable mental attitude upon the person using them."

[

 
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sofa       7/15/2007 7:05:51 PM
 
and not one comment about "IWAC and IWAN" ?
 
 
 
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sofa       7/15/2007 7:13:29 PM

Do you read what you type, or do just sort of phase in and out there?



I am not as bright as you nor as focused and on topic.
Also, I cannot read, nor type. I just look at pictures.
 
http://www.isis-online.org/publications/terrorism/image02.jpg">

 

 
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sofa       7/15/2007 7:19:07 PM
"..is to bury your head in the sand, butt up, and beg to be taken - voluntarily."
 
No "muslim terrorists" doublespeak.
Gordon Brown is asking England to stick her head in the sand, butt up, and ask that she be taken.
 
Excellent summary 'swhitebull'.
 
 
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Yimmy       7/15/2007 7:33:49 PM


swhitebull - oh, btw, Yimmy, your line accusing sofa of not reading what he writes is a repeated assertion on your part, since you've used it verbatim with me. I'm sure you can be a little more original than that.

Yes, I can be more original.  I stole that line from "Scrubs", and I rather like to use it when people are talking inane crap. 

Swhitebull, lets face it, you are an extreme Right wing Israel supporter.  There is nothing wrong with being Right wing on its own, and there is nothing wrong with supporting Israel.  I am slightly to the Right, and I support Israel.  You however are are of the extreme Right, and are foaming at the mouth rabid in your support of Israel.  It can be fun to play devils advocate with you, however you are so entrenched in your hatred of the Palestinians/Arabs that you create anti-Israeli sentiment.  Nobody likes a rabid person.  It doesn't surprise me that you should leap to the defence of someone slandering Muslims, however weak their argument.

Sofa, you are right in that Racism isn't quite the word.  However I am at a loss to think of a term describing someone who is so biased against a religion.  You can talk about doublespeak and quote Wikipida until you are blue in the face, it does nothing to advance your argument.  Everybody who has access to the Mass Media let alone more straight speaking sources knows the stories about Muslim extremists preaching hatred.  Equally everyone knows there are many Muslims who are terrorists, or who support terrorists.  This however will never stop their being many, many Muslims (in Western Europe and elsewhere) who are peace loving people, and who have no connection to extremism.  To try to argue that all Muslims are terrorists or terrorist supporters is utterly inane.  To compare Islam to Nazism is slanderous.  We fought the German military in WWII because they were commanded by a Nazi administration.  This is while Al Queda, or any other extremist Muslim element, does not command all Muslims.  It does not matter exactly what Allah is supposed to have said, nor does it matter what exactly is written in the Koran.  If you read the Bible you will find the Old Testament full of violence, and the promotion of violence, "an eye for an eye", and all that.  Yet, nobody is suggesting all Christians are terrorists and want to take over the world.  Quite the opposite, most Christians are peaceful.

It is not I who am naive, it is you.  Rabid people, extremists in your own right, love to portray things as black or white, in this case implying all Muslims are terrorists, or alternatively the Palestinians are utterly in the wrong and the Israelis have no blemish to the name.  Well, the world is not black and white.  There are peaceful Muslims in the UK, and no matter how you try to slander their name in claiming they are "infrastructure" to the terrorists, this does not make it so.  In effect you are spreading race hatred, which is a criminal offence under UK law.

 
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sofa       7/15/2007 7:43:58 PM
Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, a Muslim and the general manager of Arab news channel, Al-Arabiya has said: "It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims."
 
 
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