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Subject: The British defeat in America -
Herc the Merc    5/29/2007 8:27:07 PM
Perhaps one of the few major wars lost by Britain and that too in its own territory with vast ties by blood. How is the American war potrayed in English history books-- a civil war, liberation war, anarchy???? Its perhaps odd that Britain lost America, one of its few territories that it had connections with in bloodline. Even Britain and India parted ways with a handshake and cup of tea. The Yanks broke the tea crates in Boston Harbor and had bloody good fight.
 
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paul1970       7/9/2007 1:37:50 PM

 

 1} Hey Paul i suppose the USA could not of taken Canada after WW1? Or i guess we could not of taken out Spain after the Spanish/American war either? Yeah funny we did not land there,we pay for our airline ticket and hotel stay!. Oh and if i remember we may have provoked Spain, but they still attacked us 1st!. Now who crushed that Spanish Armada long before we or those Spanish sank the Maine?. And btw,do you actually have any real clue why we where in Cuba then? Well those Cubans living on Cuba where rebelling against their Spanish Masters!. And funny we do not rule Cuba today and neither do the Spanish!. However perhaps we should, but it is still run by the beard instead!.

 

 2} Hey Paul i suppose the USA could not of taken Mexico after Santa Anna or even today still? Hell Pauli Girl we don't even invade and occupy Mexico while 12,000,000+ have invaded us!. And we don't do as they do today and shoot them as they cross no man's land on their own southern borders!. It would sure be in our own best interest to take over all of Mexico and make these Mexicans real Americans "But we however do just the opposite, let them live here tax free!". Oh and btw again, just whom attacked whom at that Alamo?. And as for fighting Civil Wars? Well just how many did you English fight against the Scots,Welsh,Irish,and your own nation and troops?

 

 3} Hey Paul did your grand dad leave America to go back to Germany because he could do nothing in Germany about those nazi bastard's destroying the Democracy we helped give them in the 1st place? So Pauli since the USA packed our bags and went home, who really let Hitler take over and destroy that Democracy we helped give them? And just who late or not came back and insured they are still a Democracy today?. And btw, the USA did not seek to humilate and degrade those Germans after we beat them, that was your choice to make since we went home!.

 

 4} Hey Paul did our huge US Armed Forces leave the UK after both wars were won? Yeah i bet if we wished to conquer you instead of giving our US taxpayers paycheck to you instead "You could have made us leave?". So btw just how much aid has that EU given to the world including nations we do not even get along with? Well we gave 300,000,000,000 this past year alone! How bout you?. Yeah and i wonder just how much the EU was forced to spend to keep USSR from taking you all? And it was not much, because after WW1 you proved that shrinking your military so soon after a major war was the better strategy to deal with an enemy!. Well we made that mistake once,but the same mistake was not made twice!. So i wonder why our bases and large military have managed to stop a repeat again anywhere? And as for why we did not come sooner? Well if i remember the USA just went thru a little thing called the Great Depression and our people just got done leaping out their windows!. And btw,you Brits should know just what it costs to mount a large amphibious operation and move them from one side of the Atlantic to the other!.

 

 5} Did we send the Irish or incite Scottish rebels to disrupt the UK? Nope, but you sure did send plenty of North American indians to wipe out our seed!. And i sure remember England using tactics like taking a man's new Scottish wife and bringing her home to that English Lord's bed to wipe out their seed as well!. "If we can't drive them out we will breed them out instead!". Wow that sounds just like Hitler's dreams of Aryan Supremacy, only it was not those Germans doing it!. And as for those Irish? Well who sits in a place called Northern Ireland still today? So Pauli how bout getting back to England where you belong? Maybe the USA should incite those Irish like you did to us hey?

 

 6} Hey Paul i wonder why no nation has used that nuke option since we dropped those bombs in front of the world? Well duh, i guess it could have nothing to do with the world understanding the futile nature of using such weapons again now could it?. Yeah, you in Europe are great at One Dimensional Thinking, and telling only one side to every story!

 

 7} Sorry Pauli Girl but history proves that is indeed you who never can keep the peace or be satisfied with having what God has already given!. Opp's thats right those poor peasents had to leave England in the 1st place because of your nations policy on religious freedom,or should i say lack there of!. Well at the least the USA did not fight it's
 
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tigertony    Paul   7/9/2007 1:56:12 PM
  Hey Paul just who is still listed as Canada's official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II
 
  Hey Paul just who is still Northern Irelands official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II
 
  Hey Paul just who is still Australia's official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II
 
  Hey Paul  just who is still New Zealands official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II
 
  Hey Paul just who is still New Guineas official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II
 
  Hey Paul just who is the official Head of State of the Philippines? Gloria Arroyo,not GW BUSH!
 
                                                            " Have A Nice Day" and "Enjoy your Empire!"
 
                                                                          tigertony
 
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the British Lion       7/9/2007 3:14:58 PM

  Hey Paul just who is still listed as Canada's official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II

 

  Hey Paul just who is still Northern Irelands official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II

 

  Hey Paul just who is still Australia's official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II

 

  Hey Paul  just who is still New Zealands official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II

 

  Hey Paul just who is still New Guineas official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II

 

  Hey Paul just who is the official Head of State of the Philippines? Gloria Arroyo,not GW BUSH!

 

                                                            " Have A Nice Day" and "Enjoy your Empire!"

 

                                                                          tigertony


You've got to be kidding me...
1st: Australia, N.Z., N.G., Canada... plus the other 12 countries with the Queen as head of state, all have her as H.O.S. by CHOICE. Anytime they want they can vote to become a Republic. (There's been talk of that in Australia for a while now).
2nd: Northen Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. It's no more a British colony than Texas is a U.S. colony. And it too can leave the U.K. ANYTIME it wants. Same with Scotland and Wales. Refurndums have been held and all have voted to remain repeatedly. (Unlike in the U.S. where you wouldn't let anyone leave your so-called 'union'... Civil War ring a bell?)
 
Oh, and don't ever talk about Northen Ireland as if you know something about it. It's an insult to all the people who have died there.
 
3rd: Empires. It may sound childish, but everyone was doing it. People speak of the British Empire like it was some sort of unique evil we invented. In those days, you either had an empire, or you were part of an empire. America included (tell me, who's Hawaii's head of state?). It was different world. Right or wrong, that the way it was.
 
B.L.
 
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flamingknives       7/9/2007 3:48:50 PM
It's the British Commonwealth of Nations, not the Empire any more. 

What does the UK get out of the other nations of the Commonwealth? Well, we've got the BATUS training ground in Canada, access to the Woomera range in Australia, bases in Cyprus and Iraq. Except bases in Cyprus were as a result of a Turkish invasion and the bases in Iraq were something to do with our ally blundering in without a coherant plan (although we may have lacked a coherant plan too.) The US has ranges and bases in foreign countries too.

"Sorry Pauli Girl but history proves that is indeed you who never can keep the peace or be satisfied with having what God has already given!."

I can't let that one pass. What was it that drove people out of Europe and to wipe out the natives of a foreign nation in order to carve out their own niche? I guess that they weren't satisfied with what God had given them. Considering what history shows of Europe prior to the mid-seventeenth century also applies to those good folk of the USA who are considered white,  then you are surely tarred by association.

"Did we send the Irish or incite Scottish rebels to disrupt the UK?"
Does funding the IRA count? While we're on the subject of funding terrorists to fight your wars by proxy, shall we consider the Taliban? The Contras? The Chinese communists? Not acting to limit Soviet gains in Eastern Europe at such opportunities as Yalta?

Communists in Asia? Well, the French kicked that one off, because they suck :P. No, seriously, they tried to hang on to their Empire when it wasn't the way the world was going. With the UK pulling out of Empire (with our debts to the US and the ill-will generated through bad governance, we couldn't afford it) and reeling from the effects of having a major war fought through them, they couldn't afford it either. However, since they were fighting against Communists shouldn't they have been supported? Oh, that's right, fighting Communists wasn't fashionable at the time. So, some years later, after the McCarthy witch-hunts and Korea, fighting Communists was fashionable and the US wanted to play. Cue Vietnam. Fifteen years, 60,000 US and up to 4,000,000 Vietnamese casualties later, the situation is the same as if the US had never intervened, with a communist Vietnam. Except Cambodia destabilised as US support was withdrawn and you get the Khmer Rouge and another 2,000,000 killed. Nice.

Meanwhile, the UK was pulling out of India (rather foolishly creating one of the enduring hostile confrontations of the 20th and 21st centuries, India Vs. Pakistan), stabilising a Communist insurgency in Malaya, contributing to Korea, stabilising the Dutch East Indies (which blew up in our face thanks to a very undiplomatic Dutch diplomat), trying to sort out Palestine (no help from the US there), stabilising the pseudo-communist Mau-Mau in Kenya, stabilising Cyprus, Oman, Brunei and Borneo, fluffing up Aden but getting it sorted in Dhofar.

<
 
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paul1970       7/9/2007 4:08:34 PM




  Hey Paul just who is still listed as Canada's official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II



 



  Hey Paul just who is still Northern Irelands official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II



 



  Hey Paul just who is still Australia's official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II



 



  Hey Paul  just who is still New Zealands official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II



 



  Hey Paul just who is still New Guineas official Head of State or Monarch? Queen Elizabeth II



 



  Hey Paul just who is the official Head of State of the Philippines? Gloria Arroyo,not GW BUSH!



 



                                                            " Have A Nice Day" and "Enjoy your Empire!"



 



                                                                          tigertony




You've got to be kidding me...

1st: Australia, N.Z., N.G., Canada... plus the other 12 countries with the Queen as head of state, all have her as H.O.S. by CHOICE. Anytime they want they can vote to become a Republic. (There's been talk of that in Australia for a while now).

2nd: Northen Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. It's no more a British colony than Texas is a U.S. colony. And it too can leave the U.K. ANYTIME it wants. Same with Scotland and Wales. Refurndums have been held and all have voted to remain repeatedly. (Unlike in the U.S. where you wouldn't let anyone leave your so-called 'union'... Civil War ring a bell?)

 

Oh, and don't ever talk about Northen Ireland as if you know something about it. It's an insult to all the people who have died there.

 

3rd: Empires. It may sound childish, but everyone was doing it. People speak of the British Empire like it was some sort of unique evil we invented. In those days, you either had an empire, or you were part of an empire. America included (tell me, who's Hawaii's head of state?). It was different world. Right or wrong, that the way it was.

 

B.L.


he clearly did not want to answer any of the points made to him so went on with his British bashing and in doing so shows that he knows nothing about our monarchy or how the Commonwealth is run..... matter of engaging  typing finger before brain.....
he finishes up by showing that the Philipines are now independent from the US but strangely enough forgets Puerto Rico, Guam ect.... perhaps he did not forget on purpose and is just that ignorant that he did not realise they existed????? 
 
whatever his reasons... he is still to explain why it is bad that Britain had an empire but not bad that the US went to try and forge one... or back to the basic point of how he thinks that Britain was defeated in the W1812 (see, still trying to get back on topic)
 
 
Paul
 

 
 
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tigertony    Too all you Brits!   7/9/2007 4:10:50 PM
 
  WOW,you all seem to get so upset when someone states what you did!. Well the one thing i have learned about anyone from anywhere is that "Truth hurts" and just what language do i speak? English,not German,nor French!. And tell me all when did i never admit what the USA has done? Well now we indeed did plenty,however i have no trouble admitting what we did,nor do i blame it on others!. So again you Brits continue to prove my point about yourselves,lol!. Yep,the English what a sense of humor!. Take care everyone, and i will leave your own posts prove what i have already stated about you all!
 
                                                                                 tigertony
 
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the British Lion       7/9/2007 4:30:02 PM

 

  WOW,you all seem to get so upset when someone states what you did!. Well the one thing i have learned about anyone from anywhere is that "Truth hurts" and just what language do i speak? English,not German,nor French!. And tell me all when did i never admit what the USA has done? Well now we indeed did plenty,however i have no trouble admitting what we did,nor do i blame it on others!. So again you Brits continue to prove my point about yourselves,lol!. Yep,the English what a sense of humor!. Take care everyone, and i will leave your own posts prove what i have already stated about you all!

 

                                                                                 tigertony



Wow... that was just, one hell of a rebutal! No, seriously, every point I just made has gone down in flames... I feel so foolish. I can't believe I dared challenge your clearly vast and superior knowledge of history and politics.
Excuse me while I go wollow in my own shame...
 
B.L.
 
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paul1970       7/9/2007 4:36:54 PM

 

  WOW,you all seem to get so upset when someone states what you did!. Well the one thing i have learned about anyone from anywhere is that "Truth hurts" and just what language do i speak? English,not German,nor French!. And tell me all when did i never admit what the USA has done? Well now we indeed did plenty,however i have no trouble admitting what we did,nor do i blame it on others!. So again you Brits continue to prove my point about yourselves,lol!. Yep,the English what a sense of humor!. Take care everyone, and i will leave your own posts prove what i have already stated about you all!

 

                                                                                 tigertony


so you now admit that the USA went on wars of aggression to expand its Empire? so why do you pick on the British as bad guys for doing it before you? (I guess that this is down to the Irish in you)
 
you really should get your history from somewhere other than the Mel Gibson Madrassa for the mentally challenged.
still waiting for you to answer the numerous replies to the waffle you have come out with to avoid answering the original points......
 
but very recently.....did you forget Puerto Rico, Guam ect or are you actually that ignorant of your own history as you are of others?

 
 
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Drazhar       7/9/2007 4:41:55 PM
The true reason why we wanted an empire was so we could get rid of the Irish by colonising other countrys.  
 
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paul1970       7/9/2007 4:48:17 PM

 

  WOW,you all seem to get so upset when someone states what you did!. Well the one thing i have learned about anyone from anywhere is that "Truth hurts" and just what language do i speak? English,not German,nor French!. And tell me all when did i never admit what the USA has done? Well now we indeed did plenty,however i have no trouble admitting what we did,nor do i blame it on others!. So again you Brits continue to prove my point about yourselves,lol!. Yep,the English what a sense of humor!. Take care everyone, and i will leave your own posts prove what i have already stated about you all!

 

                                                                                 tigertony


so you now admit that the USA went on wars of aggression to expand its Empire? so why do you pick on the British as bad guys for doing it before you? (I guess that this is down to the Irish in you)
 
you really should get your history from somewhere other than the Mel Gibson Madrassa for the mentally challenged.
still waiting for you to answer the numerous replies to the waffle you have come out with to avoid answering the original points......
 
but very recently.....did you forget Puerto Rico, Guam ect or are you actually that ignorant of your own history as you are of others?

 
 
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