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Subject: A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for is a miserable creature
sofa    4/6/2007 8:07:14 PM
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. [...] A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. -John Stuart Mill "The Contest in America" Fraser’s Magazine (February 1862); later published in Dissertations and Discussions (1868) Vol.1 p. 26 from:""
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sofa    hat tip to Col. Jack Jacobs   4/6/2007 8:15:45 PM
Retired Army Col. Jack Jacobs calls the British sailors’ press conference the most disgraceful thing he’s seen in 40 years.
Watch the video.
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sofa    sad to see you go   4/6/2007 9:08:32 PM
"... from the start all we wanted to do was to get home."
"... if we had resisted not everyone of us would have been here today."
So the marine's and sailor's lives were the most important thing to them.
And to their Government.
Mission? Strategic considerations? What mission?      ???     !!!
Strategic surrender to the enemy? That's OK, as long as we get our 15 people back.
It was digusting when Jimmy Peanut did it and it didn't reflect the mood of the country. It is particulalry sad now when Mr Blair bends over for Iran, and his actions do reflect the wishes of a substantial majority of his countrymen.
Iran, and all of islam has calibrated the UK. This bunch of 15 and Mr Blair don't seem to know why they're there. And they are not prepared to even think about a fight. The media have done their job well...
Iran has been in a state of facist war against the west since 1979, and Mr Blair and friends have absolutely no recognition of the jihad. I recommend they listen to Iran, and take them at their word. Iran is facism aiming for global conquest, and they are doing fine with theNeville Chamberlaines and the Chirac bribes and Russian enthusiasm to see high oil prices and to see the west greatly diminished.
Farewell friends. We'll miss you. Buy prayer rugs and headscarves, you'll be needing them soon enough.
At least you got the 15 back.
Shame about losing the continent.
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sofa    now that you're gone ...   4/6/2007 9:09:28 PM
So that leaves one less to defend western civilization: US, AUS, Poland and recently escaped eastern block, and Japan (which seems to understand war on terror and is discussing sacrifices resulting from  disruption in oil supply).
What to do with Europe? It would be a huge infrastructure for the jihd if they can take it and start to use it. So what to do?
(Option A) Allow Europes wealth, manpower, and industrial capability to fall to the jihad.
(Option B) Deny the jihadis the use of this infrastructure. Similar to Soviet strategic retreat in WW2. A fighting retreat, draining the enemy, trading real estate at the highest cost possible . The soviets put their way of life before their indivdual lives and survived because of their will, and the winter. Destroy everything before abandoning it (infrastructure, personnel, etc). And when they do get it, make it useless to them.
Sure, there are nostalgic reasons to retain infrastructure. But there is an over-riding military need to deny that infrastructure to the jihad.
If the local populace doesn't have the bottle for a fight, then F 'em.
We shouldn't allow jihadi capability to grow through the acquisition of this real estate.
 Do we want to win this thing, or just lose more slowly?
"Give me liberty, or give me death."
"Live free or die."
Words that still mean something.
And you'll get mine - when you pry my dead cold hands from it.
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sofa       4/6/2007 11:33:00 PM
Men with real convictions.
Immortalized on every auto.'s-today.jpg" width=542 border=0>
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Padfoot       4/6/2007 11:52:53 PM">
2nd Lt Dyer">
Corporal Kris O'Neil">
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Kingsman Adam James Smith">
Rifleman Aaron Lincoln">

Kingsman Wilson

Sofa, these 6 British service men and woman gave their lives in Iraq this week. What might their families make of your absurd ramblings?

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sofa       4/7/2007 12:29:28 AM
What would they think?
That their government put the marines and sailors out there without supporting them in any tactical or strategic sense.
And their desire to avoid confrontation (rather than to acheive a mission) puts everyone at a greater risk.
Brits and Yanks have been "special friends" for some time.
But it looks like the UK has turned a conrner, to go down the path of dhimmitude.
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sofa       4/7/2007 12:34:16 AM
Padfoot- Why do you think UK is fighting in Iraq?
How does that square with letting Iran off the hook when they intentionally conduct a terror campaign against UK forces?
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sofa       4/7/2007 12:51:59 AM
In the field, we're good to go.
The men and women in your photos knew why they were there.
But back home we all have delusional losers.
UK seems to have very many more, with no sense of why we fight.
US seems to be catching up.
UK losers have the government.
US losers have congress but not the white house.
Appeasement may look good in the short term, but it costs much more in the long run.
The touchy feely folks never get this.
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Padfoot       4/7/2007 12:55:02 AM

Padfoot- Why do you think UK is fighting in Iraq?

How does that square with letting Iran off the hook when they intentionally conduct a terror campaign against UK forces?


Those six British soldiers probably died as a result of an Iranian trained sniper (2) and an IED(4) with Made in Iran stamped on it. The same has been happening to US troops as well. What has the US done as a result? Nothing (yet).

If we can deduce this don't you think our governments can as well?  Like you said -  there is a time and a place, and Iran will get there comeuppance when the time is right, and now isn't the right time.

Sacrificing those fifteen sailors/marines would have made no sense whatsoever, especially when you consider the fact, that the decision as to Iran's fate has already been made.

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neutralizer       4/7/2007 2:33:16 AM
It all depends on the definition of  'fight' in the JSM quote.  Most civilised people realise that fighting at any level is not the way to win an argument.
I don't know who Col Jack Jacobs is or why I should give a two cent fart for his opinion.  I might even ask whether he or the US govt paid for his lobotomy.
I'd also suggest reading the text of the two boarding party officers' statements (published on MoD's web site).  It's good to see that the British training system is producing young men (and women) with sound judgement and good sense.  The key issue in modern operations is understanding that seemingly simple actions can have strategic consequences.  It's essential that officers understand the big picture and it's a good job the Brits train their officers to engage brain before trigger finger. 
I get the impression, possibly wrongly, that some people in the US would like to have turned a bit of naughtiness by the Iranians into something serious.  The affair is a credit to British pragmatism and diplomacy.  UK is not at war with Iran and all the signs are doesn't want to be.  One thing that this does show up is that the Iranian hardliners aren't over-endowed with smarts and that there are moderating forces in Iran.  This is good news and is what the west should be building on.  About the only thing the Iranians have got is some free TV advertising for the suit makers of Teheran (the only important question is what an authentic Brit worn one will get on eBay).
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