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Subject: Cumbria massacre
YelliChink    6/2/2010 12:53:56 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1283392/Lake-District-shooting-Cabbie-Derrick-Bird-hunted.html This is a horrifying incident which signifies the danger of civilian ownership of firearms in the UK. It is obvious that guns are the source of violence in the UK, and even the peaceful cab driver can turn into homicidal maniac with mere possession of firearms. We don't know how many of those psychologically dangerous people are around, and don't know how many of them are in possession of firearms, legally or not. The solution is simple. Just ban possession of all breech-loading firearm for civilians. And also ban muzzle loaders capable of more than one shot per load. Hunters can still use traps and English longbow. Airguns are still allowed for sports competitors until some arsehole decide to abuse it. Citizens of the UK are simply too dangerous to be trusted with guns.
 
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YelliChink       6/4/2010 8:15:52 PM

Well, seeing as how we're in the process of burying a number of my countrymen, you'll perhaps forgive me for not seeing the funny side of your deliberate, inflammatory and persistent attempts to troll the forums regarding your opinions on the UK.
Are you from the US and being obtuse, or from some other country and trying to stir up a flaming session between the two countries?
You are simply trying to start an exchange of insults, that much is obvious - if you were from the US then you'd keep your mouth shut on the issue as you'd be well aware of numerous mass shootings in that country and not feel perhaps able to be so insulting.

If you were supporting gun control measures in the UK then by definition you'd support them in every other country as I don't know of any that haven't shared this sort of tragedy. I know you don't and that you're just trolling for a reaction. 
Again, if this board had anything like an effective set of moderators, you'd be banned for this sort of behaviour,
Ian

So far it is you who is giving insult to me one sided.
 
Just like what Richard Preston wrote on the Telegraph:
 
Citizens of the UK has no business owning a shotgun, a .22 rifle or any breech loading firearms in general.
 
Recreation is not justifiable purpose for owning firearms.
 
Vermins can be hunted and killed by crossbow, spring-loaded airgun and traps.
 
Guns are not needed as farming tools. Chinese and Indian farmers mostly do not use firearms. It is a excuse easily defeatable, and muzzle loaders are fully capable of replacing breech loading ones. 
 
You are right that I post this to generate reaction. I want to see what UK people say about the issue other than calling me names. What I didn't expect is that there are some Britons who are ambivalent on the issue. Nevertheless, the exaggerated satire on protective culture and nanny state fits very well to show that how ambivalency is a losing ground for shooters in the UK.
 
Crime and murder rate varies from society to society. More than 80% of annual murders in the US are gang related. The type of gang problem in the US does not exist in the UK, but they do exist in gun-ban Jamaica. You'd be surprised by the murder rate there. Simply put, there is no comparison. Otherwise, I can always point at Switzerland which has about 1/2 of murder rate of the UK.
 
 
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YelliChink       6/5/2010 5:55:10 PM
Gerald Warner on gun control in the UK:
 
He is wrong on many respect. First of all, English Bill of Rights 1689 did not mention anything about guns, firearms or ammunition. The only paragraphs I can find remotely related to the issue is about the rights for Protestants to "have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law." Such conditions do not exist anymore, and law has changed. Sir Ian Blair is right about this. Gun ownership in the UK is not a right. It is a privilege. So, if the ruling elites say that it is too dangerous for private ownership due to impossibility to assess and evaluate wherther any would-be gun owner would abuse or not, they can change the law and make all guns illegal.
 
Second of all, not only totalitarian regimes have total gun ban. Japan has total gun ban, but no one is arguing Japan is not a totalitarian regime.
 
Third, oh yes, there are system that can prevent potential shooters from acquiring guns via licensing. That is total gun ban.
 
Fourth, he should not mention about the gun rights in the US. After all, they officially rebeled against British monarchy when a detachment of British Army marched to take control of Massechusetts militia's arsenal. Discontent about tax is the fuzes, but it is the action of gun confiscation by British authority in London that triggered the Independence War.
 
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StobieWan       6/12/2010 8:17:43 AM
Well, why not just ask the question? The satire is pointless - I'm a shooter or have been on or off for thirty years, I'm opposed to further firearms legislation on the simple basis that it will not prove effective in reducing violent crime, nor will it prevent or reduce the flow of weapons to criminals - as you seem to be fairly well aware.

If you want to talk then by all means post away, skip the satire, the sarcasm and just *discuss* the matter.We can talk, it's a subject close to my heart and I'm *usually* very happy to debate it.

I know the Mail/Sun etc have all followed the knee jerk path in calling for more controls and it's the same tired rhetoric regarding legal ownership of firearms and thankfully Cameron seems set to play this down - additionally, it's not a "quiet news" week - there's bags going on with the economy that will tie up the cabinet thankfully and distract them from enacting any dangerously stupid regulations.

From a personal point, in the last ten years, attitudes towards licensing firearms have actually relaxed - the Home Office directive is to Police forces is that the license should be granted if all the boxes are ticked on the application and there's no reason to actively deny the grant. That's a step forward from shortly after Hungerford where the Police were more or less involved in many areas in actively harassing UK shooters out of firearms ownership.

Jamaica? I'd sooner stroll down the back streets of Falluja wearing a "US 4Ever" tee shirt than walk some areas in Kingston - it's *very* violent. If you're after a lucid and vivid picture of gang related crime in the UK, Gangland by Chris Berry-Dee is a must read - we have in inner London and Manchester some pretty vicious gangs and as you say, *much* of the violent shootings are gang members shooting each other (which I kind of heartily applaud, as long as they're at least accurate)

Anyways, best of luck with USA vs England tonight :) I live in terror for the day when the US apply their usual technical innovation and enthusiasm to soccer and sweep all before them...

Ian
 

You are right that I post this to generate reaction. I want to see what UK people say about the issue other than calling me names. What I didn't expect is that there are some Britons who are ambivalent on the issue. Nevertheless, the exaggerated satire on protective culture and nanny state fits very well to show that how ambivalency is a losing ground for shooters in the UK.


 
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