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Subject: Why do americans find the Alamo so special???
JTR~~    2/23/2010 4:05:08 PM
it is true that it is seen as a key part of American military history, that a few brave heroes stood against many foes, and died bravely doing their duty, but compared to other scenarios where this has been a similar case i really dont see why it stands out so much. take the battle of Isandlwana for instance 100 British soldeirs of the 24th regiment and a large group of native levies stood against odds of more than 20 to 1 and were doing very well for such odds, inflicting massive casulties on the enemy before being flanked and wiped out, even then when all was lost, small bands of men huddled together back to back to fight and die with their friends not wishing to abandon them in their hour of need. Even when roughly mid way through the battle the British troops bravely fought the enemy with their bayonets when all of their ammunition was spent. there were even reports of some soldiers fighting with fists and pocket knives, refusing to give in. one legend of sorts (which may be true) tells of how a lone man of the 24th took his rifle onto the hill of Isandlwana and shot at the enemy for a number of hours before he finally was killed. even then some of the brave soldiers managed to escape all the while being hounded by the zulus, which is credit to the 88 men whom made it back to the British natal to tell the tale. following that battle the heroic battle at rorkes drift, again the British were heavily outnumbered but this time they managed to defeat a zulu force some 4000 strong with the loss of only 17 men out of a small 100 brave souls. also an italain example of heroism at adowa, where a large italian force was attacked and overwhelmed by 100,000 men of Emporer Meneliks army in Eritrea. the italians lost some 5o percent casulties that day, but many brave actions were made throughout the course of the day which helped to save the lives of others. so i would like to know, why it is the the Alamo is found to be a thing of immense National pride to the Americans when you have such examples such as Isandlwana and Adowa, which surely are of more significance, not to the americans of course, but these are the example of the great deeds the Americans seem to asscoiate the Alamo with, and i would like to know why this is?? if anyone could provide a little insight it would be much appreciated thanks.
 
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donstrock       2/23/2010 6:29:03 PM
By even asking the question you are exposing yourself as a simpleminded troll. 
 
Why do Kippers find the BOB so special?  A stupid fugg'n question isn't it?
 
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Mikko       2/24/2010 2:43:10 AM
No insights here, just outsights.
 
1) Alamo is valued amongst Americans because it's their battle. Many countries have an alamo-scenario in their modern history.
 
2) There were some legendary names involved in the battle.
 
3)  Americans rule the film industry and American film industry makes movies about American battles.
 
4) There are many ingredients of a perfect war drama there, referring to all the notions above.
 
The original Alamo and all alamo-scenarios and the men that fought in them deserve the greatest respect from all those who have or are obliged to bear arms. Maybe we can see Battle of the Alamo as a monument to all the known and unknown alamos out there, all those German, Russian, French, American, British etc. troops who held their rifle and didn't throw it away to the end against huge odds.
 
Sentimental tone of the post provided to you by the springish sun:)
 
 
 
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LB    Obvious Bias   2/24/2010 2:52:33 AM
Camerone Day comes from a battle where the French had 65 men.
 
Massada is famous for resisting for two years and then everyone kills themselves.
 
Story of 47 Ronin.
 
Societies have their myths.  The Alamo was a battle in a real war against a peer competitor whose delaying action turned out to be rather significant.
 
Actually you don't know your history.  Isandlwana was a strategic defeat for the Brits where they lost 800 British regulars.
 
As an aside the Alamo is much more about Texas pride, which was an independent nation for 10 years, than about national pride.  So I'd suggest you further don't know much about the Alamo either.
 
 
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FJV       2/24/2010 3:18:22 PM
It's a variant of remember the Spartans.
 
 
 
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Nichevo       3/7/2010 12:13:09 AM
Or Horatius at the bridge.
 
Who is this peckerwood?   Or in UK lingo, I should say, Who is this wanker?
 
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JTR~~    thanks   3/12/2010 12:35:27 PM

No insights here, just outsights.

 

1) Alamo is valued amongst Americans because it's their battle. Many countries have an alamo-scenario in their modern history.


 

2) There were some legendary names involved in the battle.


 

3)  Americans rule the film industry and American film industry makes movies about American battles.


 

4) There are many ingredients of a perfect war drama there, referring to all the notions above.


 

The original Alamo and all alamo-scenarios and the men that fought in them deserve the greatest respect from all those who have or are obliged to bear arms. Maybe we can see Battle of the Alamo as a monument to all the known and unknown alamos out there, all those German, Russian, French, American, British etc. troops who held their rifle and didn't throw it away to the end against huge odds.


 

Sentimental tone of the post provided to you by the springish sun:)


 

 



this has helped me to understand its national importance somewhat, thanks for your input
 
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JTR~~    thanks   3/12/2010 12:43:05 PM

Camerone Day comes from a battle where the French had 65 men.

 

Massada is famous for resisting for two years and then everyone kills themselves.

 

Story of 47 Ronin.


 

Societies have their myths.  The Alamo was a battle in a real war against a peer competitor whose delaying action turned out to be rather significant.


 

Actually you don't know your history.  Isandlwana was a strategic defeat for the Brits where they lost 800 British regulars.

 

As an aside the Alamo is much more about Texas pride, which was an independent nation for 10 years, than about national pride.  So I'd suggest you further don't know much about the Alamo either.


 


i know Isandlwana was a defeat, the greatest defeat to a British army by natives, i didn?t say that it wasn?t, i merely stated that it was important from a national point of view, and i was not intending to be bias, I could have mentioned hundreds of instances where something similar has taken place like this, whether it be British, French, German, Russian, Italian, or notably like the Polish garrison at Westerplatte who held up in the small improvised fort before the might of the Wermacht at the very start of world war 2, or the French ,Belgians and the BEF and Dunkirk, the Germans in Berlin during the wars final days, the Russians at Stalingrad and Leningrad there are simply too many to mention.

 
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Hamilcar       3/13/2010 3:29:43 AM

it is true that it is seen as a key part of American military history, that a few brave heroes stood against many foes, and died bravely doing their duty, but compared to other scenarios where this has been a similar case i really dont see why it stands out so much.
take the battle of Isandlwana for instance 100 British soldeirs of the 24th regiment and a large group of native levies stood against odds of more than 20 to 1 and were doing very well for such odds, inflicting massive casulties on the enemy before being flanked and wiped out, even then when all was lost, small bands of men huddled together back to back to fight and die with their friends not wishing to abandon them in their hour of need. Even when roughly mid way through the battle the British troops bravely fought the enemy with their bayonets when all of their ammunition was spent. there were even reports of some soldiers fighting with fists and pocket knives, refusing to give in. one legend of sorts (which may be true) tells of how a lone man of the 24th took his rifle onto the hill of Isandlwana and shot at the enemy for a number of hours before he finally was killed. even then some of the brave soldiers managed to escape all the while being hounded by the zulus, which is credit to the 88 men whom made it back to the British natal to tell the tale.
following that battle the heroic battle at rorkes drift, again the British were heavily outnumbered but this time they managed to defeat a zulu force some 4000 strong with the loss of only 17 men out of a small 100 brave souls.
also an italain example of heroism at adowa, where a large italian force was attacked and overwhelmed by 100,000 men of Emporer Meneliks army in Eritrea. the italians lost some 5o percent casulties that day, but many brave actions were made throughout the course of the day which helped to save the lives of others.

so i would like to know, why it is the the Alamo is found to be a thing of immense National pride to the Americans when you have such examples such as Isandlwana and Adowa, which surely are of more significance, not to the americans of course, but these are the example of the great deeds the Americans seem to asscoiate the Alamo with, and i would like to know why this is??
if anyone could provide a little insight it would be much appreciated
thanks.

1. It was Texas' version of Pearl Harbor.
2. It was the set up for this overlooked Mexican military disaster:
 
 
Travis bought eleven critical days that Houston needed to set up his trap. Travis' command also shot up and demoralized the Mexican Army so thoroughly that the trap was possible. In this respect, the Alamo is MORE important than Roarke's Drift or Masada as it was actually a necessary part of that decisive and world changing victory.
 
Note that Sam Houston wanted Travis to evacuate and fall back and fight a tactical delay (cavalry action) . Travis, I believe, made the better strategic decision at the time as his small force could only delay in place. As usual, last stand myth obscures the actual military truth of significance.      
 
 
 
 
 
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Hamilcar       3/13/2010 3:32:43 AM

it is true that it is seen as a key part of American military history, that a few brave heroes stood against many foes, and died bravely doing their duty, but compared to other scenarios where this has been a similar case i really dont see why it stands out so much.
take the battle of Isandlwana for instance 100 British soldeirs of the 24th regiment and a large group of native levies stood against odds of more than 20 to 1 and were doing very well for such odds, inflicting massive casulties on the enemy before being flanked and wiped out, even then when all was lost, small bands of men huddled together back to back to fight and die with their friends not wishing to abandon them in their hour of need. Even when roughly mid way through the battle the British troops bravely fought the enemy with their bayonets when all of their ammunition was spent. there were even reports of some soldiers fighting with fists and pocket knives, refusing to give in. one legend of sorts (which may be true) tells of how a lone man of the 24th took his rifle onto the hill of Isandlwana and shot at the enemy for a number of hours before he finally was killed. even then some of the brave soldiers managed to escape all the while being hounded by the zulus, which is credit to the 88 men whom made it back to the British natal to tell the tale.
following that battle the heroic battle at rorkes drift, again the British were heavily outnumbered but this time they managed to defeat a zulu force some 4000 strong with the loss of only 17 men out of a small 100 brave souls.
also an italain example of heroism at adowa, where a large italian force was attacked and overwhelmed by 100,000 men of Emporer Meneliks army in Eritrea. the italians lost some 5o percent casulties that day, but many brave actions were made throughout the course of the day which helped to save the lives of others.

so i would like to know, why it is the the Alamo is found to be a thing of immense National pride to the Americans when you have such examples such as Isandlwana and Adowa, which surely are of more significance, not to the americans of course, but these are the example of the great deeds the Americans seem to asscoiate the Alamo with, and i would like to know why this is??
if anyone could provide a little insight it would be much appreciated
thanks.

1. It was Texas' version of Pearl Harbor.
2. It was the set up for this overlooked Mexican military disaster:
 
 
Travis bought eleven critical days that Houston needed to set up his trap. Travis' command also shot up and demoralized the Mexican Army so thoroughly that the trap was possible. In this respect, the Alamo is MORE important than Roarke's Drift or Masada as it was actually a necessary part of that decisive and world changing victory.
 
Note that Sam Houston wanted Travis to evacuate and fall back and fight a tactical delay (cavalry action) . Travis, I believe, made the better strategic decision at the time as his small force could only delay in place. As usual, last stand myth obscures the actual military truth of significance.      
 
 
 
 
 
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