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Subject: French pacifism: the paragon of bourgeois
Sambation    8/21/2007 8:50:19 AM
“Turn-the-other-cheek pacifism,” George Orwell observed in 1941, “only flourishes among the more prosperous classes, or among workers who have in some way escaped from their own class. The real working class . . . are never really pacifist, because their life teaches them something different. To abjure violence it is necessary to have no experience of it.” It's no coincidence that Orwell made this remark in 1941, months after the French capitulated to the Germans. There's a very simply-put but complex question about France: does it, today, have any values? My answer is equally simple and complex: no, it has only a lifestyle. Or, to be more fair, the country values only its lifestyle. It raises up its triune value system, the now-cliched "liberte, egalite, fraternite." Perhaps that once meant something, perhaps not. Today it's a banner -- or ceiling, is a better word, that the French use to ascertain the upper limit of action before it damages the status quo. The 35 hour work week, some of the largest vacation time allotments in the world, and excessive welfare provisions all have no better expression than the unwillingness of the French to fight for something. A fight is a shakeup of the status quo; it spills coffee and bumps the artist's hand while he's at the easel. Of course, the French go to work, some to the army. But very few French will deny the claim that the French quality of life is the best in the world. Leaders on the French left trump this claim as proof of the success of the French model, and proclaim that they will never give up the model, and the lifestyle that it produces, no matter what the cost. But it's that last phrase that curdles. What is the cost? There's no need to rehash France's huge domestic problems, including, but not limited to, what is amounting to a population invasion by a group that has little desire to give up religious values that drown out the comparatively feeble calls for liberte, egalite, etc. The French want to say there is no problem, or the problem is only a social one -- a sociological one, one that is solved by resource and integration. Well, there are two lessons to learn from the British. The first is that no matter how wealthy, how fluent in the language, and how gainfully employed your fifth columners might be, they, at times, are still eager to blow themselves up in buses, because they see each other, and not their countrymen who sing about "fraternite," as their true brothers. Perhaps not all of them, but enough. The second lesson is Orwell's. A pleasant society, a society that values its lifestyle and how its citizens interact with one another and not WHY they interact with one another (a moral purpose in a nation), has no need for violence. It abjures it. It looks around at and sees a supremely healthy, if flawed, society. One that integrates others because, it reasons, it has what everyone wants-- it's beautiful quality of life. Perhaps the French of the spring of 1940 saw things the same way: "the Nazis aren't so bad." What was the litmus test that led France into Vichy? Very simple: Will agreeing with the Nazis change our lifestyle more or less than disagreeing with them? France chose clearly in 1940. Today the question is the same, but more acute. The majority of French society has chosen: agree, integrate, appease, and relate. Make excuses and find hidden causes for outrageous acts of violence committed (around the world) by a certain religious group. "It cannot be the fault of the group, since we know better than to fault groups, therefore it must be the fault of the country; our fault, not their fault." Sarkozy's plans to bring France into the modern global economy are much more than just social plans. They are, to borrow a term, transcendental. If he is successful, he will change the nature of France by it. But in the end it is not Sarkozy but the people of France that must choose, that must ask themselves if there aren't real principles hiding behind the preferences of their nation.
 
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Ezekiel    irony in montmarte   8/24/2007 10:38:39 AM
the irony being that in  the end France will be defeated by its own population that refuse this lifestyle, distain it, and actively promote from within its demise. The French have for their lifestyle, forgone the replenishing of their people. (1.6-1.8) annual growth. They are being out bred by its muslim populations and have neither the value system to inculcate them with "frenchness"... This ignominious end wouldn't be so tragic if france didn't have such a big military infrastructure that will fall into these islamist barbarians hands, but like monmarte today, they don't really dig maintenance or anything other then destroying the west and making sure they have memorized three chapters of hadith!

Check out the europe is fast becoming eurabia thread.

 
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french stratege       8/24/2007 9:01:19 PM
I don't know what are you smoking but...
It do not deserve any answer..
 
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Sambation       8/25/2007 12:46:23 PM
Clearly not smoking Gauloises (as Paris burns).
 
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AdvanceAustralia    fs   8/25/2007 2:55:05 PM

I don't know what are you smoking but...

It do not deserve any answer..

The only answer it needs is an explanation of what France is going to do to maintain its culture and society which I have always thought was among the world's most prominent.

I'm sure Sambation wasn't smoking anything mind-altering when he wrote it. This is a serious issue.

When is France going to defend itself? The Yanks, Brits, Aussies, Canucks and many others spent too much blood last century defending France to see our ancestors lives wasted because you won't stand up for your own values in your own backyard against a culture which occupies your territory, has a parasitical relationship with your social security system yet refuses to become culturally French.

Cheers.

 
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Shirrush       8/25/2007 3:05:41 PM
"Does France, today, have any values?"
Check this out:

Saturday, August 25, 2007

Can you feel the hatred? 

posted by U*2 @ 6:03 AM

Americans, you are hated here. Don't ever forget it.

This week kicked off the annual literary "rentrée" when France's most read authors have their new books released. Currently displayed (prominently displayed at that) among the bestsellers is a novel called "Répugnances - Parfums d’Amérique".

The story is about a French gigolo called Jean-Luc who is kept by a well off Chicago woman. Jean-Luc is quickly bored by life in America (which the book jacket describes as socially and economically one-dimensional). Happily, he is brought back from loneliness and boredom by the 9-11 attacks (emphasis mine, the terms are taken directly from the book jacket) and falls in with a group of French whose main activity is insulting, humiliating, and torturing American women (must be one of those French sleeper cells). Jean-Luc takes part in the activities of the group and massacres two American women (the book jacket insists that American women have horrible duck-like voices). He then marries the rich American and kills her, inheriting her estate. He happily returns to France a rich man, returning to Chicago from time to time where he owns a French sex academy.

From the back cover:

Jean-Luc, gigolo à la dérive, s'envole pour Chicago où il va retrouver Pamela, une riche Américaine qu'il a récemment séduite dans une boîte de nuit parisienne. L'espoir cède très vite à l'ennui, à la haine et au dégoût du monde qui l'entoure. A l'instar de la conformiste Pamela qui en vient très vite à l'entretenir, les gens qu'il rencontre sont lisses, dépourvus de substance, aussi fades que les étalages de nourriture dans ces supermarchés qui le dépriment, et le soi-disant écrivain en reste à la page blanche. Heureusement, la violence finit par l'arracher à la solitude et au néant. Les attaques terroristes du 11 septembre, d'abord, qu'il regarde avec une fascination malsaine, puis la rencontre avec un groupe de français dont la principale occupation est de médire de l'Amérique, d'humilier les Américaines et de les torturer. Il prend vite une part active aux activités de ses nouveaux amis et en vient à massacrer deux de ces Américaines aux horribles voix de canard. Puis, en application d'un plan soigneusement ourdi, il trouve moyen d'épouser Pamela avant de la faire assassiner et d'hériter de tous ses biens. C'est l'Amérique ! Alors il peut rentrer en France, riche, désormais libre de mener une vie de plaisirs et de débauche, retournant de temps en temps à Chicago pour fleurir la tombe de Pamela et s'occuper de son nouveau commerce : une école de sexe à la française.

http://multimedia.fnac.com/multimedia//images_produits/ZoomPE/4/4/7/9782846281744.jpg" border="0">

Et ca gueule!... (9) | Trackback (0)

(Thanx to: http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/)

_______________________________________________________________________________

Oh, the depravity!
No Islamofascism here, just plain degenerate ugliness.
These people are the Jihad's natural allies, just as they were for the nazis 70 years ago.
Nothing new under the sun here. Same old pathologies, same old lack of values.

 
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Sambation    American Repugnances   8/26/2007 7:09:03 AM
The French hurling literary salt stones across the Atlantic, not realizing, of course, that they don't have a strong enough arm to make the throw. Pa. The. Tique.
 
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Sambation    French Stratege   8/26/2007 7:33:52 AM
FS does have a point (though he doesn't know what it is). There needs to be clarification of the post. The post about French values is interesting because it talks about the French problem on a different level -- on the level of value of values. We could say that even Islamofascists have better values (where the survival of their system is concerned) than the French. It's like comparing a crocodile's "values" (means of prolonging itself as a species) with that of a platypus. Or dodo.

The other valuable part of the post is discussing what ought to be done. France, unfortunately, leads the continent in some ways. It is responsible for European, and therefore global Leftist, "group think."

Sarkozy might (and the mightness of that might cannot be over-emphasized) have a positive effect on the situation. But he's an x-factor. What else then? Sidelining French ideas? Engaging? Mocking, as the Bush admin. did in the early stages of the war?

France is still in bed with some of the world's worst dictators. It is still helping Arab states produce nuclear programs. It is still paying Libya off to free Bulgarian (???!!!) hostages charged with false crimes. It is still twisting the Israel-Arab 'conflict' to suit its needs; to pay for new Parisian roads and trees.

I'm not sure what the solution is, and if that solution could be exported to other countries on the continent (and off of it) suffering from similar maladies (Netherlands comes to mind, very quickly, as do many Scandinavian countries.)

Many historians, Laqueur and Dalrymple are two good examples, think that France and the continent are lost. They may be very correct. At least regarding the next few hundred years.

Europe cannot confront itself, and France especially. Instead, it plays tea party with its little dictator friends who hide in Paris from the angry native mobs they spent decades abusing (where did Mugabe escape arrest to? where did Khomeini spend his exile? Arafat? etc.etc.)

How do you force France to confront itself? What is preventative medicine for that country? Or is it doomed?

 
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Sambation    The Military Element   8/26/2007 8:56:26 AM
And if it's doomed, how do you control and contain its military, which could easily fall into the hands of very nasty people? What do you do about a world-leader nation that becomes a rogue state? Is there a preemption option?

Think to NATO-- especially when considering France's troubled history with an organization it helped found, especially its decision of 1966. Chirac reaffirmed the French position in the 1990s when he decided to deepen French commitment to the UN-- where it is at least symbolically a super-power, and where it can parley with oil interests and Africans that share disdain for the US (for "The West") -- instead of to NATO.

(France plays Iago to the powerful Moor and the nervous, impotent Rodrigo. The metaphor is surprisingly apt: Iago "fills his purse" by playing Rodrigo (oil countries), whose only real criticism of the Moor is the latter's power. Iago and France are jealous of power and so play both sides to get it.)

NATO is the way forward. There are actual membership requirements (such as not being a brutal dictatorship), which the UN lacks. NATO embraces values; the UN discards them.

In regard to the original post, NATO is a way to enforce values. I wouldn't say it's going too far for other nations, like the US, to partially disengage from the UN (call it 'disentanglement') as France did from NATO, and throw weight behind the latter organization.


 
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Ezekiel    Sambation here's your answer   8/26/2007 3:07:45 PM
The cultural struggle going on in France and W.Europe on a whole which isobvious to all is solved by our very own French Strategician.... in his words...
I don't know what are you smoking but...

It do not deserve any answer..



 
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french stratege       8/31/2007 9:15:59 PM
Ok Sambation
Since your second post is less agressive I answer:
France, unfortunately, leads the continent in some ways. It is responsible for European, and therefore global Leftist, "group think."
 Bullsh@t.Politically correctness is spreaded more by British with their surrendering to minorities or leftist German with their cullprit of WW2 and green activists.

France is still in bed with some of the world's worst dictators. It is still helping Arab states produce nuclear programs.
It is false.Do not confuse civilian and military.
 
It is still paying Libya off to free Bulgarian (???!!!) hostages charged with false crimes. It is still twisting the Israel-Arab 'conflict' to suit its needs; to pay for new Parisian roads and trees
.Paying? By what? Instead Sarko said we will not go further with Lybian if they don't free the Bulgarians who were not french nationals BTW.

Many historians, Laqueur and Dalrymple are two good examples, think that France and the continent are lost. They may be very correct. At least regarding the next few hundred years.
Some said the same for America dominated by Chineses and Mexicans.

Europe cannot confront itself, and France especially. Instead, it plays tea party with its little dictator friends who hide in Paris from the angry native mobs they spent decades abusing (where did Mugabe escape arrest to? where did Khomeini spend his exile? Arafat? etc.etc.)
BTW Khomeini stayed in France because the Shah (a friend of France) asked us.Giscard D'Estaing even questioned the Shah to ask him if we should kill Khomeini or throw him out.The Shah considered wrongly that Khomeini was not dangerous in France.
And if a dictator comply with French interests BTW , I have no problem.
Personnaly I don't care with governance of third world countries: I prefer by far a dictator who buy us products than a democracy which would not..If he wants weapons than France is here.
I prefer a Castro friendly with France than a Batista friendly with USA.
My moral values are simple: human are not really equals and to be born with french education in France is a gift of providence.
I have travelled enough outside including USA (where I spend a cumulated year in my life -or UK, or Germany, or Italy, or Mexico, or Morrocco, or Switzerland...) to prefer by far until now to be french.
Our way of life is second to none.And we are a rational country.And I value logic and knowledge.
If God would exist (low probability), it would be a gift of God to be french so a kind of predestination, if it not exist, I still enjoy to be french (after all I could have been a worm or anything else.. but does it prevent myself to crush a worm under my feets?) and I would defend this civilisation, its marvelous land and its freedom, its cultural heritage and progress, its state, this for myself or my beloved and by respect with our ancestors who build it.
Rest of the world.? They can manage themselves..
Now if the minority groups we have (wrongly) accepted on our territory try to change this model and do not integrate (we give them time), I can predict a dark future for them.There is a point French will prefer to be a pariah state than to accept anything.
 
 
 
 
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