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Subject: Europe is fast becoming Eurabia
Ezekiel    3/2/2007 10:36:09 AM
With falling european birthrates and muslim birthrates in Europe increasing at an accelerated rate. Christian culture spurned, and immigration policy unchecked. Eurabia will be upon us, what can we do to confront such a threat from the european perspective as well as the US approach???
 
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jean       3/3/2007 12:13:41 PM
i like those stinking threads, yet posted by another poster.
France has the best birthrate in europe with ireland. 2 children per woman. As i live in france , i can easily have a look at the population. My best friend and my brother in law have 4 children each, and they are not arab or black or eskimo or asian or martians ....and these are not isolated cases. They can be considered as "good" french with your racial criterias, probably close to nazi ones used in ww2 to eliminate jews, bohemians, slavonics,....If you remove the immigrant populations this rate falls to 1,9.Even the muslims have less and less children than before.
In WW1, WW2 we needed them to fight the germans, in the 60s to build our roads, bridges, buildings....and now we have to get rid of them ?
I am against new immigrants to come in europe, but my countrymen , muslims or else, living here are at home.
What about Israel with 20% of arab population, is it in jeopardy ?
What about USA, with almost 40% of black, latinos, asians.
Thoses populations, can't they be good citizens loving their homelands and countries ?



 
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Ezekiel       3/4/2007 10:03:45 AM
The implication of racism in asserting that the massive immigration trends of arabs since the 50's to Europe has brought with it identity issues  toEurope speaks of pseudo progressive ignorance. This isn't about race this is about values, this isn't about skin color but national identities. Your knee jerk response that attempts to intimidate through fatuous labels speaks volumes. The question that must be adequately answered by France and its French citizenry and in a larger sense Europe is; what does it mean to be a Frenchman? What does it mean to be a European? What is the present generations indigenous cultural links to its past and from this answer follows the shape of its future.

European civilization is congruent with christian civilization and the rise of Islam in Europe cannot be ignored, the fact that in marseille French is the second most spoken language provokes some questions. Mosques are springing up throughout Europe, but funnily enough I don't see churches blooming in the middle east. The arab/muslim populations, to get to the point, are simply not assimilating to their host countries, but rather, are creating independent cantons within them. As these population numbers grow, which they are, the greater the problem gets. Holland within 30 years will have a 50% muslim population. The arab/muslim birthrates far outgrow the european birthrate of the host country. This goes to Italy, Germany, spain etc. France has 10 million of their own and from the statistics in front of me, their birthrates far outweigh the indigenous populations. Last summer their were riots throughout France and one couldn't help noticing that those rioting were of middle eastern descent.

The problem isn't immigration, it is the regulation of immigration. First that the flow is constantly checked in order to keep it a balance, as well as a process of orientation that inculcates the immigrants into the host countries way of life. Again this isn't a question of blood, but of values. Ignoring what is taking place in Europe, the cultural malaise that has taken place is as frightening as the problem itself. As for Israel, well yes, it is a huge problem that 20% of the people in the Jewish state are not Jewish an existential  problem that Israel will inevitably have to confront or cease being the one Jewish state in existence. As for America, it is a young country, that are based on universals of liberty, free trade which lends itself to a far greater degree of multi culturalism then Europe. Multi culturalism as far as Europe is concerned is a new concept. Meaning what makes an American and what makes a european are two seperate things. Though even in America there is still the need for a certain amount of acculturation to occur in order for its immigrant populations. The fact of the matter is that this question of Eurabia isn't an issue that belongs to the xenophobes or racists, but has become common dialogue in many academic circles and mainstream discussions.

 
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jean    the prophet ??   3/5/2007 11:01:00 AM

The implication of racism in asserting that the massive immigration trends of arabs since the 50's to Europe has brought with it identity issues  toEurope speaks of pseudo progressive ignorance. This isn't about race this is about values, this isn't about skin color but national identities. Your knee jerk response that attempts to intimidate through fatuous labels speaks volumes.

Blablabla....

The question that must be adequately answered by France and its French citizenry and in a larger sense Europe is; what does it mean to be a Frenchman? What does it mean to be a European? What is the present generations indigenous cultural links to its past and from this answer follows the shape of its future.

good aspect: the new immigrants must be integrated in the existant populations, respect the country and the people where they settle. Beiing french , it's respecting its history ( best and the worst) , its values ( liberty, equality, brotherhood,secularity, human rights, democracy, ...), the laws, the traditions, ...and the other hand , the authorities must fight racism and other segregations, and must act for integration.

European civilization is congruent with christian civilization

not important for me

and the rise of Islam in Europe cannot be ignored, the fact that in marseille French is the second most spoken language provokes some questions.

where do you post from ? have you ever been in europe ? in marseille ? you're not lucky with me , cause i was born in marseille and spent almost all of my life there. French is not the second language , the first language should be what ?? it's anything this assertion.
Do i say that in NYC, english is the second language spoken ? it's ridiculous.

Mosques are springing up throughout Europe, but funnily enough I don't see churches blooming in the middle east.

Except from marseille , there are about 150000, muslisms and NO Mosque .....as for the middle east you're right , and much more important the christians are not safe , specially in iraq and lebanon.

 The arab/muslim populations, to get to the point, are simply not assimilating to their host countries, but rather, are creating independent cantons within them. As these population numbers grow, which they are, the greater the problem gets

that depends on the country, this is quite true in the UK.

. Holland within 30 years will have a 50% muslim population. The arab/muslim birthrates far outgrow the european birthrate of the host country. This goes to Italy, Germany, spain etc. France has 10 million of their own and from the statistics in front of me, their birthrates far outweigh the indigenous populations. Last summer their were riots throughout France and one couldn't help noticing that those rioting were of middle eastern descent.

These are your personal statistics ....

The problem isn't immigration, it is the regulation of immigration.

right

First that the flow is constantly checked in order to keep it a balance, as well as a process of orientation that inculcates the immigrants into the host countries way of life. Again this isn't a question of blood, but of values. Ignoring what is taking place in Europe, the cultural malaise that has taken place is as frightening as the problem itself

depending on the country

As for Israel, well yes, it is a huge problem that 20% of the people in the Jewish state are not Jewish an existential  problem that Israel will inevitably have to confront or cease being the one Jewish state in existence.

I hope not with the lieberman's solutions ...

As for America, it is a young country, that are based on universals of liberty, free trade which lends itself to a far greater degree of multi culturalism then Europe. Multi culturalism as far as Europe is concerned is a new concept. Meaning what makes an American and what makes a european are two seperate things. Though even in America there is still the need for a certain amount of acculturation to occur in order for its immigrant populations.

so what's good for USA, is not for Europe ? ....

 The fact of the matter is that this question of Eurabia isn't an issue that belongs to the xenophobes or racists, but has become common dialogue in many academic circles and mainstream discussions.

right
Ezekiel , ezechiel, ezequiel...was a prophet of the old testament. He fore
 
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Rasputin       3/5/2007 11:12:01 AM
Well if u want to let good people in but kick bad people out, best you have inplace some racial harmony law, that puts the boot right into the ass of nazis and the terrorist of any religon.

The worse case I have ever seen is the blind sheikh in the UK, then the next would be those islamic wingers going about their nonsence at the vatican.

Anyway screen all porkhaters, just to be sure :) people who hate pork tend to be the unhappiest people on earth.



 
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swhitebull    Playing the Islamophobia Slur   3/5/2007 6:32:23 PM
but A Spade is Still a spade, no matter if you refuse to acknowledge, same goes for Islamic fanatics and birthrates:
 
Playing the Islamophobia Card
By Joseph Klein
FrontPageMagazine.com | March 5, 2007

 

Islamophobia is a term thrown around these days to condemn anyone who dares to tell the truth about the source of global terrorism. The Organization of Islamic Conferences (OIC), for example, claims that it is “offensive," "irresponsible" and "insensitive" to describe the self-professed Muslim jihadists who kill in the name of Allah as Islamist fundamentalist extremists or Muslim terrorists. But that is exactly who they are.

Is the OIC right in saying that “Islam often conjures in the western minds images of authoritarian government, subjugation of women, cruel punishments of Sharia Law and violence in the popular Western mind?" Yes they are, but that is not evidence of Western bigotry or a “clash of ignorance,” as the OIC would have us believe. Every one of these images mirrors the truth about the unfortunate state of Muslim life in much of the Middle East, Asia and Africa today. 

No amount of Islamo-propaganda can obscure the fact that extremist Muslims kill other Muslims with whom they disagree as well as the "infidels" whom they so despise. Moderate Muslim leaders who believe in more modern, pluralistic values and who would criticize the extremists if they had a chance cower in silence in fear of their lives. When a government run by strict adherence to Islamic law takes control, those who do not conform are jailed or executed. Women are treated like chattel. And, sadly, Islam has been used to justify legions of al Qaeda and Shiite fanatics to fight to the death – theirs and ours – in order to establish their vision of a global Muslim caliphate.

A phobia is defined in Webster’s dictionary as an “inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation.” Fear of Islamic extremism and its potentially catastrophic consequences is not inexplicable or illogical. It is a rational reaction to dangerous, irrational people who would use weapons of mass destruction to bring about their apocalyptic vision. Cold War strategies like containment and mutual assured destruction do not work with a psyche that revels in death rather than life. After all, it was Osama bin Laden who declared in one of his fatwahs against America that “Death is truth and ultimate destiny” and that “Death is better than life in humiliation!” He and his millions of followers have sought a return to Islam’s glory days when Islam was spread through force under the banner of revolution to become the dominating global presence. Since those glory days, the West has triumphed while much of the Muslim world remained frozen in time – tribal, theocratic and ruled by some form of autocracy. Failure bred humiliation, which led to the revival of religious fundamentalism of the most virulent kind that has metastasized into today’s terror cells.

 

The standard Islamo-propaganda line, by the secular left, is that Western foreign policy has caused the pent-up hostility of many Muslims.  Israel and Iraq<

 
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Ezekiel    jean's non-response response   3/6/2007 7:13:40 AM
Thank you jean for giving me such an intrigue non response. Speaking about the cultural malaise....

there are statistics to the argument, if you wish i will point you in the direction, but i don't think you are. Is it true that there are 10 million middle eastern immigrants in France, if you disagree with the marseille observation please provide me your info on how many middle easterners are in marseille. I know that we disagree so telling me you disagree isn't necessary the meaning of the forum is to know the reasons why. repeating my name over and over does not suffice but rather a little demeaning..... by the way ezekiel as well as witnessing the destruction of Israel also prophesied the redemption.


 
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sofa       3/6/2007 10:05:28 AM
"Today, many Marseillais are descendants of the waves of immigrants that arrived at the port in the early 19th century. As a result, the ethnic French are a minority. The largest ethnic groups in the city are Italian who make up 37.5%http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5044219 href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5044219" rel=nofollow>[1] of the population. Other significant communities include North African Arabs (25% of the total population), and Armenians (12.5% of the total population http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Marseille href="http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Marseille" rel=nofollow>[2]). It is estimated that roughly a quarter of the population are ethnic French. "
 
Reagrding mospques in Marseille: There are several, and construction of a 'Grand Mosque' in underway.
 
John doesn't know much about Marseille.  
 
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sofa       3/6/2007 11:37:43 AM
"It is time that moderate Muslims, who are sick of having their religion highjacked, speak out loud and clear. They should form their own global Muslim networks and be given more prominence on America’s campuses to counter the Islamo-propaganda that permeates the dialogue on campuses today."
 
The koran calls for what we see today.  The koran defines islam as political, economic, legal; a complete world view, a society. Violence and murder are not 'a hijacking of a religion'. The koran instructs this behavior.
(Yes, earlier verses talk about peace and love, but are supercedded by later verses calling for death and destruction. So don't quote the few peaceful verses without talking about precedence, and the Hadiths.)
 
The Koran is clear regarding moderates. Moderate forces cannot and have never had any sway within islam. 1400 years. But maybe moderates will show up today?
 
Many in the west are waiting for moderate moslems. And the koran instructs moslems to delude those who will be enslaved with this hope. But the koran instructions follow that up with dhimmitude, enslavement, and death. 
Read it. Know your enemy.
 
"A moderate moslem is one who has run out of ammunition" -John Corey
 
 
 
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jean    ezekiel   3/6/2007 12:44:56 PM

Thank you jean for giving me such an intrigue non response. Speaking about the cultural malaise....

there are statistics to the argument, if you wish i will point you in the direction, but i don't think you are. Is it true that there are 10 million middle eastern immigrants in France, if you disagree with the marseille observation please provide me your info on how many middle easterners are in marseille. I know that we disagree so telling me you disagree isn't necessary the meaning of the forum is to know the reasons why. repeating my name over and over does not suffice but rather a little demeaning..... by the way ezekiel as well as witnessing the destruction of Israel also prophesied the redemption.


10 millions from middle east ?? very very few from middle east but africa and elsewhere ...10 millions ? that's your number.
who knows ? No personal allusion to your name, i gave several names because it's written differently in several languages, only the aspect of a "new" prophecy interested me.
Concerning the malaise ( french word) i feel it like the french and believe me i certainly would have preferred asian immigrants than african ones. Because they are more able to integrate. But those people are here , and we live in western country. What do you want ? a civil war ? ghettos, apartheid , and worse ? i believe in the wisdom of people not to fall in extremism.We must give the example, but not being coward also.
I recall you that france has forbidden muslim veil in public school. The reaction of USA and UK was negative. But now some countries like holland will imitate us.
For the moment i don't feel a future danger , i hope i am right.

 
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jean    marseille   3/6/2007 1:02:48 PM
For Ezekiel and Sofa:
Roughly 150000 muslims could live in Marseille , a link in french : http://www.lefigaro.fr/france/20060707.FIG000000098_la_ville_de_marseille_aura_sa_grande_mosquee.html

Muslims came from north africa ( algeria, morrocco, tunisia) , black africa ( mali , senegal...) but also from Comores, and elsewhere . Not all of them are arabs , it's more complex. Marseille is like new york city, it's a special and unique town in the world. Made of immigrants , beeing french with old root is rare and not important. Italians , spaniards, corsicans, armenians was the immigration before ww2. Now it's africa, and muslims.During the riots in nov05 , nothing or almost happened in marseille.
A mosque is in project , when ? at that time i don't know. On the other hand, there are a lot of rooms from praying thai i don't consider like a normal mosque with minaret that you find in muslim countries.( like a church if you want). Before these rooms they prayed in cellars under the buildings.The french state doesnot give a dime for the counstruction ( theorically).



 
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