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Subject: The Nazis and World War II delayed the Cold War
Commander    3/25/2005 12:30:06 AM
It is in my belief that the Nazis and the Second World War delayed the coming of World War II. First, the Great Depression happened during that time and since most of those who were starving were workers the Communist Party increased its membership. Second, there were many strikes. The only event that ended the Great Depression was the Second World War with a war coming unemployed men joined the army. Work became available for everyone munition factories were filled with men. But with the end of the Second World War Soviet Communist reached its greatest height
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CJH    RE:The Nazis and World War II delayed the Cold War   3/25/2005 11:48:47 PM
I think this is the same as asking the question - "Would there have been a war or a cold war between capitalism and Communism if there never had been any Nazis to start WWII". If that is so: An opinion is that WWII started when Japan invaded Manchuria (in 1931?) and continued with its invasion of China in 1937. There was also Musselini's 1935 invasion of Ethiopia which caused Ethiopia Emperor Haile Selassie to address the League of Nations in protest. The League which had been created to keep the peace proved useless. Of course the Japanese invaded French Indochina which caused the US to stop exporting oil to Japan. It looks as if Japan was on a course for a Pacific war regardless of Germany. In 1940, the Soviet Union seized Finnish Karelia, the Baltic countries and the province Bessarabia from Romania. The Soviets probably would have made a move on Europe even if there had been no Nazis. My theory is that Stalin conspired to instigate a war between Germany and the Entente with the idea of restarting WWI to produce a stalemated struggle. Seemingly endless carnage without a chance for victory would lead to mutiny and revolution. The people of Europe would welcome the Red Army as saviors. If there had been no Nazis, Stalin may have tried the same thing anyway. My overall theory concerning this is that had the US stayed out of WWI, WWI in Europe would have ended with a run of revolution, civil war, mass executions of leaders, purges, economic devastation, destruction of the industrial base and starvation. Then there would never have been a WWII.
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Commander    RE:The Nazis and World War II delayed the Cold War   3/26/2005 8:38:02 AM
CJH, I once read an article which I read over and over again which states that Stalin had ambitions to invade Europe. It was hindered by Hitler's invasion of the Soviet Union. Stalin knew that Hitler would invade the Soviet Union but Stalin continously checked if Germany bought wool or winter clothing which the Germans did not have. When Operation Barbarossa commenced Stalin was unprepared because he thought that Germany would invade Russia when Britain was beaten. Many Russians were killed and captured not because they were not ready for a war but because they were not ready for a defensive war. When I get back to the topic which states that Stalin would invade Europe. It is correct if there was no Nazis the Cold War would come earlier and be a World War. In the Cold War especialy in the Cuban Missile Crisis only a few knew how close we were to Nuclear Annihalation. It was only Nuclear Weapons that made sure that no World War was fought. Since there are no Nuclear Weapons a World War would be fought with the Socialist and Capitalist nations. Many want Hitler dead but it is a basic fact that more men died in Stalinism than in Nazism. ( I am not saying that Hitler is better than Stalin but both this men have almost the same personalities). Nazism killed 6 million Jews while Stalinism killed 20 million Russians. It was only circumstance that made Stalin a wartime hero in WWII.
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jastayme3    RE:The Nazis and World War II delayed the Cold War   12/13/2005 12:11:02 AM
"interrupted" might be more accurate than "delayed". their was a Cold War going on in the twenties and thirties-and a more dangerous one in some ways.
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Carl S    RE:The Nazis and World War II delayed the Cold War   12/14/2005 8:22:13 AM
I'd go along with interrupted. The USSR, was active in the Chinese civil wars of the 1920s & 30s, the Spanish civil war, and any number of political activities elsewhwere. The USSR was active in formenting anti British groups in India, Afganistan, Iran, and across the Middle East. It also supported communist partys elsewhwere in the world.
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CJH    RE:The Nazis and World War II delayed the Cold War   12/15/2005 8:24:17 AM
The Nazis were just a variation on the Communist theme. They threw in some gimmicks to differentiate themselves from the Communists and did some things their own way but generally were appealing to the same market as the Communists. The Nazis were not enemies of the Communists. They were political competitors. When Hitler invaded Russia he had a choice. He could have made war on Russia or he could have liberated the victims of Communist oppression and allied them to him in a war against Stalin's Communism. He chose the former. When it came time to take action, Hitler showed his anti-Communism was sales talk. Therefore, it is wise to look at Nazis as one evolutionary extension of Communism and to look at the Nazism 1919-1945 as part of the same phenomenon as the USSR of the Cold War. Hitler did not delay the Cold War. His rule was the preliminary. I still believe that had the US stayed out of WWI, WWI would have triggered a general uprising and civil war in Europe which would have ushered in Communist rule. Had that happened, Europe would have been left desolate for decades. The WWII would never have happened. Remember, the USSR received great assistance from the West in WWII and even ot atomic secrets from us through its spies. After the end of WWII, the USSR ransacked the resources of eastern Europe including German scientists. Without these, the USSR would have been much less able to prosecute a credible cold war.
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Carl S    RE:The Nazis and World War II delayed the Cold War   12/16/2005 10:52:12 AM
"The WWII would never have happened." I'd agree with this, with a slightly different twist. Europe would have been racked by a series of little wars, much like the period between 1918 & 1923. Europe might have looked much like China during the same decades. I'd also suggest the Soviets would have entered into these wars for many reasons. The lack of resources from the west, ie: grain purchases from Germany, would be a incentive to act aggresively. I'm also wondering if the resulting economic cahos from this situation would have led the US & Japan to a confrontation earlier.
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Desertmole    RE:The Nazis and World War II delayed the Cold War - CJH   4/8/2006 7:42:23 AM
Actually it is incorrect to describe Nazism as a "variation on the Communist Theme. Economically they were quite far apart. The were both a form of Totalitarianism. From "a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator (not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc.) [syn: dictatorship, absolutism, authoritarianism, Caesarism, despotism, monocracy, one-man rule, shogunate, Stalinism, tyranny] 2: the principle of complete and unrestricted power in government."
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CJH    RE:The Nazis and World War II delayed the Cold War - CJH   4/8/2006 8:56:27 PM
I have generally considered the Nazis to be a left wing phenomenon. That is because they were anti-capitalist, anti-monarchist, anti-aristocracy, anti-Christian, controlled the whole society through their party, etc. Communism was what they were emulating even though they wanted to be competitors.
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Photon       3/22/2009 5:57:10 PM
As for the Nazis, bear in mind that the ranks and files of SA were led by Ernst Röhm -- much of his views were indistinguishable from communists and socialists.  His contempt towards the establishment -- the industrialists, the aristocrats and particularly the military -- which eventually led to the Night of the Long Knives and the end of SA.  At that time, Hitler has yet to firmly entrench himself into the Reich and thus knew better not to make too many enemies at once.  (Not to mention that other prominent Nazi leaders like Göring and Himmler also resented Röhm's power.)  You can say that the Nazis sort of shifted away from their socialist beginning due to the course of shifting political alliances until Hitler finally had a tight grip over the Reich Chancellery.
Meanwhile, the communists were more interested in going after social democrats.  So much from Moscow, the 'Mecca of Communism'!
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CJH       3/29/2009 3:34:02 PM
One thing that did impress me was the comment I heard once about the Great Depression. The comment was to the effect that people now (the 70s) have no idea how close this country came to going Communist before FDR gor the New Deal going.
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