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Subject: What Special Forces are the best?
mike14    2/15/2005 2:27:20 PM
I think the Austrian Special Forces or US Navy Seals
 
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mough    RE:What Special Forces are the best?   4/19/2006 12:37:35 AM
They told me also that the best combat divers in the world are the Italians. They told me that SBS ans Seals are not realy Combat Divers like French, germen and italian...What do you think about that?<< nonsense, professional's don't talk like that about other pro's except if they themselves feel inadequate, those who can........do!, those who can't, bad mouth those who can.
 
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GOP    RE:What Special Forces are the best?   4/19/2006 10:54:57 AM
Mough, About Red Cell...I thought that they still existed...I guess not. They were, however, the highest trained military unit on the planet. These guys were absolutely top notch, and they pulled off unbelievable feat's (like sneaking into a nuclear submarine, "Blowing up" Airforce one...heck, the guys prefered to get to their hotel rooms by scaling the hotel walls). I agree that Komsubin is the best at pure combat divering, but I am not sure about their land warfare/DA aptitude. If I was taken hostage on a ship (we all know that I am a high priority in the Pentagon, much more so than Braddock :), then I would much rather have the SEALs or SBS come and get me than Italian Komsubin, French CH, or German Kampfschwimmers. I am not putting any of them down, heck, I have absolutely no right to put those guys down...they have proven their mettle, but I think the SEALs and SBS are better at Land Warfare/OPLAT.
 
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The Frenchman    RE:What Special Forces are the best?   4/19/2006 11:50:43 AM
We know that Seals (while Vietnam) and SBS are very good units (but an american officer who worked regulary with them told me that most of the Seals team 6 were very too young and too much sure to be the best...), but for example Russian top unit in Tchetchenia do a very hard and operational work, they are probably very well trained and realistic context more difficult than in Irak I think...) We don't know all top units in the world and it depend on the years, sometimes a SAS squad is may be a very good unit and 5 years after the same squad with other people is not as well... To want to say what unit is the best is realy stupid, Seals are good, but remember all the mistakes they did in Grenada, Somalia...CAUSE THEIR OFFICERS, may be... Do you know that COMMANDO HUBERT and GIGN (Squad of them not the total unit...another problem) liberated yet hostages in a very hard situation in a grotto, big battles with a lot of deads rebel people and wonded ans deads frecnh soldiers...do you know the great job did by Commando Hubert in ex-yougoslavia, the liberated hostages and arrested several war criminals... Do you know that the French Naval commandos do the same job like the famaous devgroup? they taste with civilian uniform the protection of nuclear bases and submarines...since before the davegroup... Do you know that Marcinko asked GIGN to train his group? Do you know that the dream of the HQ Seals is to create inside the Seals a very little unit who will work like the French and Italian combat divers? The mission of the Seal Officer who is actually in the COMMANDO HUBERT is to give to the Seals the best knowledges to become them real combat divers, it is the true, I am sorry. We will never know who is the best unit and why you want to know that, we will see the story... Remmber Delta and the big failure of the Iran raid in the 80'... How to say who is the best? with witch criteriom (individual, tactical, collectivly, oprationals operations with success?...) can we judge who is the best?
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:What Special Forces are the best?   4/19/2006 4:00:02 PM
>>About Red Cell...I thought that they still existed...I guess not. They were, however, the highest trained military unit on the planet. These guys were absolutely top notch, and they pulled off unbelievable feat's (like sneaking into a nuclear submarine, "Blowing up" Airforce one...heck, the guys prefered to get to their hotel rooms by scaling the hotel walls).<< I'd take Marcinko's claims that Red Cell were the elite of the elite with a grain or two of salt. I'm not saying he did not start with top rate operators to staff the unit, but at the end of the day they were just, essentially, playing a game. There's various reasons why OPFOR units usually enjoy a reputation for being ten feet tall, and most of them would apply to Red Cell just as much as they'd apply to the bad guys at JRTC or NTC, etc.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:What Special Forces are the best?   4/19/2006 4:13:18 PM
>>but for example Russian top unit in Tchetchenia do a very hard and operational work, they are probably very well trained and realistic context more difficult than in Irak I think...)<< Possibly more difficult, but that difficulty stems primarily from Russian ham-handedness and tactical and strategic incompetence, so I'm not sure it is a relevant point in proving a Russian unit superior to its counterparts in the west (American or otherwise). >> Do you know that the dream of the HQ Seals is to create inside the Seals a very little unit who will work like the French and Italian combat divers?<< Hmmmm. I thought their dream was to own the absolute biggest dive watch on the planet, so huge that it has to be worn Flava Flav style around the neck, so that everyone knows they are really serious operators . . . :) >>Remmber Delta and the big failure of the Iran raid in the 80'...<< Um, that simply illustrated that the US Navy and USMC aviation communities were not the go-to guys for special operations aviation support, and that special operations should not be conducted with the mindset of everyone getting an invitation to the party (notably, neither of these lessons should have been learned in the Iranian desert, since they should have been bluntly and unpleasantly obvious to everyone, but that's politics for you . . .). The mission's failure had absolutely nothing to do with the guys in Delta or the Rangers that were there to support them.
 
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GOP    RE:What Special Forces are the best?   4/19/2006 4:50:43 PM
>>We know that Seals (while Vietnam) and SBS are very good units (but an american officer who worked regulary with them told me that most of the Seals team 6 were very too young and too much sure to be the best...), << BS. He is either wrong or you are lying...bottom line. Devgru is considered by most to be the best combat diving unit on the planet, they are unbelievable at what they do. They are chosen because they are the best SEALs...all age means is that you are older, not that you are better. >>Do you know that COMMANDO HUBERT and GIGN (Squad of them not the total unit...another problem) liberated yet hostages in a very hard situation in a grotto, big battles with a lot of deads rebel people and wonded ans deads frecnh soldiers...do you know the great job did by Commando Hubert in ex-yougoslavia, the liberated hostages and arrested several war criminals...<< SEALs have done the same stuff, except we don't hear about it. >>Do you know that the dream of the HQ Seals is to create inside the Seals a very little unit who will work like the French and Italian combat divers?<< Funny stuff. SEALs stands for SEA, AIR, LAND, the HQ SEALs dream is to continue to improve the tactical profeciency of SEALs. SEALs hardly ever do any combat diving anymore, unless it is to get to their objective. The French and Italians are very good, but the SEALs are at least equal...and when it comes to land warfare, there is no question who is better (SEALs). >>The mission of the Seal Officer who is actually in the COMMANDO HUBERT is to give to the Seals the best knowledges to become them real combat divers, it is the true, I am sorry<< You are just full of crap, huh? The mission of a SEAL officer in Commando HUBERT is to share info and experiences so both the HUBERT and SEAL commandos can both get better, it is a mutual thing. It has nothing to do with SEALs wanting to become 'real combat divers', because we do just great by ourselves, but the point of the exchange program is to share info, experience, and techniques to improve tactical profeciency. >>Remmber Delta and the big failure of the Iran raid in the 80'...<< Yeah, I know all about it. Maybe you should do some research yourself (well, 90% of your post is 'suspect' at best), because USN/USMC aviation was not up to par and was not ready for the mission. They pilots were ill-trained, it had nothing to do with CAG (they can't pilot the things themselves). Well, Frenchmen, we disagree on just about everything...mainly because you are wrong on everything. I am glad you chose this site, because you will definitely learn your stuff if you stay here for any period of time.
 
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Yimmy    RE:What Special Forces are the best?   4/19/2006 5:40:24 PM
"If I was taken hostage on a ship (we all know that I am a high priority in the Pentagon, much more so than Braddock :), then I would much rather have the SEALs or SBS come and get me than Italian Komsubin, French CH, or German Kampfschwimmers. I am not putting any of them down, heck, I have absolutely no right to put those guys down...they have proven their mettle, but if they don't speak English, how will they hear me yell "I'm a hostage don't shoot!"
 
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mough    RE:What Special Forces are the best?   4/20/2006 2:54:56 AM
About Red Cell...I thought that they still existed...I guess not. They were, however, the highest trained military unit on the planet. These guys were absolutely top notch, and they pulled off unbelievable feat's (like sneaking into a nuclear submarine, "Blowing up" Airforce one...heck, the guys prefered to get to their hotel rooms by scaling the hotel walls). I agree that Komsubin is the best at pure combat divering, but I am not sure about their land warfare/DA aptitude. If I was taken hostage on a ship (we all know that I am a high priority in the Pentagon, much more so than Braddock :), then I would much rather have the SEALs or SBS come and get me than Italian Komsubin, French CH, or German Kampfschwimmers. I am not putting any of them down, heck, I have absolutely no right to put those guys down...they have proven their mettle, but I think the SEALs and SBS are better at Land Warfare/goplat<<< I don't mean to be harsh kid, but you'd be wrong in all that, they are all very effiecent at what they do, saying SEAL's are better at land warfare because you saw a Discovery channel documentry on them, doesn't mean it's true, it also does not mean the the SEAL's are no good at it either, they all train togeteher regularly, especially at the SEAL warfare centre in Colorado.
 
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mough    RE:What Special Forces are the best?   4/20/2006 2:56:28 AM
I'd take Marcinko's claims that Red Cell were the elite of the elite with a grain or two of salt. I'm not saying he did not start with top rate operators to staff the unit, but at the end of the day they were just, essentially, playing a game. There's various reasons why OPFOR units usually enjoy a reputation for being ten feet tall, and most of them would apply to Red Cell just as much as they'd apply to the bad guys at JRTC or NTC, etc<< agreed, Dick was seeling a myth/book's, he never talk's about the times they were caught much does he?.
 
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mough    RE:What Special Forces are the best?   4/20/2006 2:57:39 AM
agreed 100%, especially the SEAL one haha.
 
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