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Subject: Rhodesian Commando
Yimmy    11/14/2005 10:23:42 AM
Taken from another thread, my not wanting to side-track it: "The thing that worked for Mike Hoare and his boys (and the Rhodesian Light Infantry, Rhodesian SAS, Selous Scouts et al)" Who exactly were these Rhodesians mentioned? I have been meaning to ask about them for ages, but never got round to it. Whenever you brouse a British army surplus outlet, you always see various webbing accessries and the likes labelled as being ex-Rhodesian, or Rhodesian type etc. Although I am sure this is in the same context as labeling a $2 watch "SAS issue", what was the unit, and what made them so famous? Reading at face value, I assume they were a recce regiment recruited from Rodesia, serving in the South African military, against Angola?
 
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longrifle    RE:Rhodesian Commando   11/15/2005 12:00:56 AM
They were units of the Rhodesian Army. The Rhodesian Light Infantry was a parachute light infantry force. I think they called their sub-units Commandos but I'm not sure if the "Commandos" were battalion or company size. The Rhodesian SAS was simliar in organization to the British SAS but I think it was only one squadron and all white. The Selous Scouts were similar to the SAS but included blacks and were mostly used for scouting and tracking operations. They were supposed to be great trackers and survivalists, "bushmen" I guess the term would be.
 
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Yimmy    RE:Rhodesian Commando   11/15/2005 9:23:38 AM
Are they all dispanded today?
 
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Liver    RE:Rhodesian Commando   11/15/2005 9:26:54 AM
I think they may have been disbanded when "Rhodesia" (zimbabwe) was handed over in 1980 (i may be wrong on this though) - they have some info on them in the imperial war museum in the small wars/ post 1945 exhibit IIRC
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:Rhodesian Commando   11/15/2005 9:57:33 AM
>>Who exactly were these Rhodesians mentioned? I have been meaning to ask about them for ages, but never got round to it. Whenever you brouse a British army surplus outlet, you always see various webbing accessries and the likes labelled as being ex-Rhodesian, or Rhodesian type etc. Although I am sure this is in the same context as labeling a $2 watch "SAS issue", what was the unit, and what made them so famous?<< Like Longrifle said, I was referring to the actual Rhodesian military prior to that country's transformation into Zimbabwe. Some of their other units (white and black) could have some hits and misses in terms of operations, but the RLI, Rhodesian SAS, and the Selous Scouts were absolutely hard as coffin nails and masters of COIN operations.
 
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Yimmy    RE:Rhodesian Commando   11/15/2005 10:04:26 AM
Heh, well I hope they are all long gone then. I never realised Zimbabwei used to be Rhodesia.... and would dearly like for us to go in an kick Mugabe out.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:Rhodesian Commando   11/15/2005 10:13:46 AM
>>The Rhodesian Light Infantry was a parachute light infantry force. I think they called their sub-units Commandos but I'm not sure if the "Commandos" were battalion or company size.<< Companies were "commandos" and platoons "troops." Also included a pretty high percentage of non-Rhodesian troops from elsewhere in the Commonwealth (and a number of American Vietnam veterans as well). >>The Rhodesian SAS was simliar in organization to the British SAS but I think it was only one squadron and all white.<< I think it also had the honor, lineage-wise, of being the first post-WW2 SAS unit put back into service, having gone over to Malaysia for the emergency there. >>The Selous Scouts were similar to the SAS but included blacks and were mostly used for scouting and tracking operations. They were supposed to be great trackers and survivalists, "bushmen" I guess the term would be.<< They were actually practitioners of very "black" special operations whose methods were disguised by calling them trackers. Their typical operational approach consisted of sending mixed European and African reconnaissance teams into areas suspected of being guerilla safe havens, etc., posing as newly arrived fighters from over the border in Mozambique or other hostile nations (for this to work the European members of the unit patrolled in full blackface so they could pass as African from a distance). Rather than just putting eyes on guerillas, they would make contact with them, interact with them (all this was done by the African troopers in the unit, with the white troopers making themselves scarce at such times), and eventually call in an RLI fireforce to annihilate them. It worked remarkably well -- the Rhodesians had a good intel network and so knew many of the right names to drop and such and the guerillas were very poorly equipped with radios so fact checking on the spot was nearly impossible. They later got into bigger operations, but retained the highly unconventional approach -- ambush busting with a Q Bus whose innocent exterior concealed several .50 cal and 7.62mm machineguns, and some large cross-border raids that included rolling into a guerilla training camp of 5000 or so, again in blackface to get past the perimeter security, and commencing to machinegun everyone they could lay eyes and guns on. They are also notable for 1) being the only unit in the Rhodesian army that paid nearly equitable wages to blacks and whites (base pay for blacks was much lower, but all troopers drew identical hazardous duty pay regardless of race). 2) startling willingness to work with "turned" guerillas. There are numerous cases where they captured a guerilla or two and, in the field, explained to him he could either be turned over to Special Branch and the Rhodesian legal system (terrorism being a capital crime) or throw his lot in with them right there on the spot. Those who opted to join the Scouts were given their weapons back immediately -- which sounds utterly insane, but apparently there was only one documented case where a guerilla is believed to have subsequently betrayed his recon team. If one can find a copy of it for less than the price of a first born child, "Top Secret War" by Ron Reid-Daly (former commander of the unit) is an excellent read on one of the more unusual and innovative units and approaches to counter-insurgency out there (note, however, that the tactics the Selous Scouts used were not developed by them -- my recollection is that they were first used in Malaya). Rhodesian
 
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longrifle    RE:Sites of intrest   11/15/2005 10:53:15 AM
Thanks for the info Horsesoldier. Yimmy, these sites are related and may be of intrest to you. http://members.tripod.com/selousscouts/ http://members.aol.com/mantrack/
 
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Cato    RE:Useless Anecdote   11/15/2005 11:11:32 AM
I had the pleasure to speak to gentleman who served in the Royal Artillery for three years, then with the SAS for ten. He retired in 1986, and said (admittedly very little) that in the course of the early 1980's he worked with several former Rhodesians(white dudes only). They were the best of the best, and their fieldcraft was "absolutely superior". Didn't much care for ZANU PF. Always humbling to meet somebody older than your father who could kill you with his bare hands. Cato
 
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Sentinel    Selous Scouts (Psuedo Operations)   11/18/2005 9:47:48 PM
I guess what made Rhodesian so effective is that they combined a undercover or psuedo guerilla team to locate teams that had infiltrated their contry, and a air-mobile strike force, called a fire force, to deploy rapidly to kill the highly mobile guerillas. But, I think the crux of their ability lay within the Selous Scouts. The idea of the unit was so outside the box, that the conventional military mind could barley tolerate it's existence. In fact, if you read Ron Reid Daly's book, he was their commander, you find that much of their recruiting of captured guerillas was hidden from their own general officers. The book is a great read! Some of the ruses they pulled of were incredible. I've often though that what we need in Iraq are something like the Selous Scouts. Another thing that made the Rhodesian military as a whole so noteworthy was just what they were able to accomplish with so many strikes against them. The whites were like less than 1% of the population. They were under sanctions, They had a largely agricultural economy, meaning the white population was really spread out. But, inspite of this, and thanks to the Selous Scouts, Rhodesian Light Infantry, and the SAS, they were never defeated in battle, and ended the war in a political aggreement. It's facinating military history! It's too bad so few know about it.
 
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longrifle    RE:Selous Scouts (Psuedo Operations)   11/18/2005 11:23:03 PM
>>I've often though that what we need in Iraq are something like the Selous Scouts.<< Agree sort of. If there was an advantage to that organization and their operational methods, then what we need in Iraq in for some of out current SOF to start operating like the Selous Scouts did. Not, I believe, to create yet another SOF. When Rhodesia decided it needed an airborne force, I think they reorganized and trained the existing Rhodesian Light Infantry. I don't think they created a new organization from scratch.
 
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