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Subject: the fatal divide
dirtykraut    10/10/2007 8:52:59 AM
I came across this article, and someone may have posted it already. It describes many British soldiers, especially special forces, are wary of the Americans tactics in Iraq. Now we all know that this is old news. But what got me is that another ex SAS, not Ben Griffin, claimed that many of the American contractors and soldiers he met were evangelical Christians....I can honestly say I have yet to meet an evangelical christian in the military. There are several Christians, but they aren't the kind of people who go over to Iraq just to get a little crusading done. My quetion is to the brits. Are there some brits who really fancy themselves as the voice of reason amidst a "holy war"? I would usually chalk it up to British media, which generally portrays the Americans as thugs who don't understand the situation and the British as heroes who are experts at winning the hearts and minds. Perhaps, a soldier who serves in Ramadi or Bahgdad will see things differently than one in Basrah, where very little if any sectarian strife takes place due to it's 99% shia population. I know this was discussed before, but this article in my opinion merits another look at this. Anyways here is the article: h*tp://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/03/12/do1201.xml
 
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gf0012-aust       10/10/2007 9:43:42 AM
 
 
well blackwater certainly do have a very focussed christian ethos bordering on crusading. (if you use Prince as the litmus test).
 
mough can actually provide some first hand evidence of this.  there is an Oz mil site which is currently down due to domain rego issues.  when it gets back up I'll provide the new link.  One of the threads covers blackwaters "executive led" crusader type attitude.
 
 
 
 
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gf0012-aust       10/10/2007 9:43:43 AM
 
 
well blackwater certainly do have a very focussed christian ethos bordering on crusading. (if you use Prince as the litmus test).
 
mough can actually provide some first hand evidence of this.  there is an Oz mil site which is currently down due to domain rego issues.  when it gets back up I'll provide the new link.  One of the threads covers blackwaters "executive led" crusader type attitude.
 
 
 
 
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bob the brit       10/10/2007 11:01:13 AM

 

 

well blackwater certainly do have a very focussed christian ethos bordering on crusading. (if you use Prince as the litmus test).

 

mough can actually provide some first hand evidence of this.  there is an Oz mil site which is currently down due to domain rego issues.  when it gets back up I'll provide the new link.  One of the threads covers blackwaters "executive led" crusader type attitude.

 

 

 


i'm interested to see what he has to say as i'm long out of the loop, he's not been around lately though. hopefully he can return and provide us with some insight as it seems to be a discussion that pops up evey now and then (not just on here)
in my works with american forces, i never really came across a christian crusader attitude (now i don't mean conquering the middle east type attitude, but the "i'm doing gods bidding" type of thing) the lads were always straight forward and took a neutral approach to things.
anyway as i said, i'm curious as to further opinion on this matter, hopefully our little informant mough can return.
 
oh and gf0012-aust, i'm afraid you to have caught the incurable SP repeat-itis, killer that one!
 
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Horsesoldier       10/10/2007 12:08:09 PM

 
well blackwater certainly do have a very focussed christian ethos bordering on crusading. (if you use Prince as the litmus test).

 
Well, I've never met Eric Prince, so can't speak for his religious convictions (though various written accounts seem to make much of this).  But I do know a large number of guys who either have or are currently contractors working for Blackwater (mostly guys I've served with who've gotten out specifically to do contract work or ended up doing it) and I'd have to really question any suggestion that Blackwater (or the various other American PMCs out there doing business) have anything you'd call a "focused Christian ethos."

 
 
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dirtykraut       10/10/2007 9:58:24 PM
I never saw anything of the sort in my time in the army. I have heard of people like General William Boykin, but he is about as rare in the military as the likes of Stan Goff, the absolute opposite of Boykin. I wander if it's just a ploy by the media and companies looking to publish the next line of novels written by ex SAS soldiers. Perhaps the media is looking for a few McNabs to fill their role of a tragic anti war soldier caught up in a holy war.
 
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dirtykraut       10/10/2007 10:07:26 PM
Prince may be a devout Christian. He might even be an evangelical. But I have yet to see evidence that he believes the Iraq war to be a crusade. He may very well believe that, but I doubt it represents even a minority of the contractors working for Blackwater. There are not nearly as many evangelical Christians in the US as most people think. In fact, when they make polls where they ask people questions such as "is the bible's 6 day creation story true?", it is usually done by someone with an agenda, and the polls are therefore taken in places like the bible belt states. It is similar in the military. Is there an evangelical subculture in the US? No doubt, but it is far from being the prevailing world view of people in this country, contrary to popular belief.
 
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dirtykraut       10/10/2007 10:13:07 PM
What I don't understand is why books like Leo Docherty's "Desert of Death" don't get much mention by the press. It is by far a more level headed assessment of the situation (in both Afghanistan and Iraq) than most of what the press in the UK reports.
 
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bob the brit       10/11/2007 4:20:32 PM

What I don't understand is why books like Leo Docherty's "Desert of Death" don't get much mention by the press. It is by far a more level headed assessment of the situation (in both Afghanistan and Iraq) than most of what the press in the UK reports.



ah, so you too have read docherty...
good read i thought, brief but to the point, i think he read the situation in his area well. why doesn't it get much attention? not to sure, maybe because it takes a "we need to be there but we need to change the way in which we do things" approach which doesn't fit in with the "what are we doing there" stance of the media. i'm not too sure on what general opinion on afghanistan is in the UK as i've been mainly abroad (canada) with work and have only hopped back a couple of times.
 
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