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Subject: Top notch SWAT units?
GOP    9/23/2007 10:13:22 PM
Whatsup guys? Anyway, we have a ton of info on great military SOF units, but I was just curious as to what Police Dept/Sherriff Dept SWAT units are considered top notch? Now, this is certainly no comparison as I hate those, or a ranking in any way. Just a listing of top notch SWAT units or info on excellent SWAT units throughout the country (obviously referring to the US, but if you know of any great ones in your country then feel free to add them). Honestly Just trying to get a feel for what options I have (as far as locations, etc), as Im still unsure on my career goals. I have heard excellent things of MDPD SWAT, LAPD SWAT, Dallas SWAT, and Las Vegas SWAT.
 
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longrifle       10/14/2007 9:18:17 AM
It was a great four years.  I've often wished I'd stayed and gone to SF selection and tried to become a warrant officer.
 
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ChdNorm       10/14/2007 1:54:08 PM
Longrifle,
You're in Idaho or someplace like that aren't you? What kind of department do you work for up there?
 
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longrifle       10/14/2007 11:23:30 PM
"Longrifle,
You're in Idaho or someplace like that aren't you? What kind of department do you work for up there?" - ChdNorm

Wyoming, although I'm an old southern Appalachian boy originally (western North Carolina) I've been in the Rockies for quite a few years now.  I came out in the early '90s to pack, guide, and dude wrangle.  Eventually I had to get a real job.

I work for a small municipal department.  We have 25 sworn.  Lots of tourists coming and going from Yellowstone.  Plenty of skibum types too, so there's lots of alcohol related activity.  DUI, domestics, barfights, drunk in public, disturbances, etc.  Auto burgs, of course, and lots of "paper crime" like credit card and check fraud. 

Not a lot of violent felonies but we can count on sexual assaults and aggravated assaults periodically.  We haven't had a murder since I started.  Most of our body calls are suicides or accidental deaths.
 

 
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ChdNorm       10/15/2007 7:08:23 PM
That is pretty freakin cool. I have always thought that I would like a department like that, or a rural working Sheriff's Department (especially one with an interstate to work interdiction on). I'm too much of a flatlander for up that way myself, It is awfully pretty country though. I'm just not used to trees and all those hills!
 
I'm glad you posted in this thread though. I feel like sometimes I get to rambling and everybody else shuts up. I'm sure GOP appreciates your thoughts and opinions, so if you see anything I leave out or miss I'd appreciate your opinions on the matter as well.
 
Did I see on another thread somewhere a while back that they'd sent you to homicide training? On a department of that size, do your Detectives function as general investigators or do yall specialize in certain fields? Out of 25 sworn, how many investigators do yall have ... 5 or 6? What's the drug scene like up there?
 
Here's an opinion I have had for quite a while, that might be worth discussing for GOP's future department selection. I have worked with a lot of officers from other smaller jurisdictions while assigned to various task forces, and quite a few of those of those guys are pretty sharp. At a bigger department, it's at least 4 or 5 years before you ever get to start actually making judgment calls and acting as primary on any calls. Your first two years are really just spent standing off to the side watching your FTO handle all the thinking. With the smaller departments, while there might not be the sheer volume of calls, it seems to me that the junior officers are given a lot more responsibility earlier on their careers. I have often thought that that on the job experience makes for a better officer in the long run. What do you think?
 
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longrifle       10/15/2007 11:28:17 PM

 
"Did I see on another thread somewhere a while back that they'd sent you to homicide training?"

Yes, it was a 40 hour class held at Sandy, Utah.  The lead instructor was Dave Rivers, a retired sergeant from Miami-Dade.  Rivers had the crime scene for the 1986 FBI gunfight in Miami.  Great class, I just don't get to use it a lot.  I usually help the coroner sack one or two a year.  All the scenes I've been on have been ruled suicides or accidental deaths.  Some of them have been quite messy though.

"On a department of that size, do your Detectives function as general investigators or do yall specialize in certain fields? Out of 25 sworn, how many investigators do yall have ... 5 or 6?"

General investigators.  We have 4-5.  Investigative Sergeant, Investigative Corporal, two full time investigators, and one seasonal investigator.

"What's the drug scene like up there?"

With a big skibum/snowboarder scene I've encountered more pot and mushrooms than anything.  The harder stuff is here, it just doesn't predominate in our county.  One county away there's lots of gas and oilfield workers.  Guess what they like?
"Here's an opinion I have had for quite a while, that might be worth discussing for GOP's future department selection. I have worked with a lot of officers from other smaller jurisdictions while assigned to various task forces, and quite a few of those of those guys are pretty sharp. At a bigger department, it's at least 4 or 5 years before you ever get to start actually making judgment calls and acting as primary on any calls. Your first two years are really just spent standing off to the side watching your FTO handle all the thinking. With the smaller departments, while there might not be the sheer volume of calls, it seems to me that the junior officers are given a lot more responsibility earlier on their careers. I have often thought that that on the job experience makes for a better officer in the long run. What do you think?"

It's not a bad option.  I had three months of academy, three and a half months of FTO, and then I was a one man unit in the call roation taking my turn as primary.  I don't think GOP would want to be in a one stoplight town with two officers; however, some smaller departments, say 20-50, can be a great experience.  He'll have more tense moments than he thinks in a department that size.  Not necessarily SWAT related stuff but you know how "iffy" some domestics can be!

If I had gotten into LE sooner I would have considered applying to a federal agency after about five years in a smaller department.  As it is now, I'm content where I'm at for the time being but I might consider applying with the county someday, since I'd like a chance to do some search and rescue.


 
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Panther       10/19/2007 3:47:25 AM
Thank you ChdNorm for the reply. Sorry it has taken a week for me too reply!
 
I'm from Fort Worth.
 
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ChdNorm       10/20/2007 5:39:49 PM
"Yes, it was a 40 hour class held at Sandy, Utah.  The lead instructor was Dave Rivers, a retired sergeant from Miami-Dade.  Rivers had the crime scene for the 1986 FBI gunfight in Miami.  Great class, I just don't get to use it a lot.  I usually help the coroner sack one or two a year.  All the scenes I've been on have been ruled suicides or accidental deaths.  Some of them have been quite messy though." longrifle
 
I bet that was a great class. Homicide has always been really interesting to me (real homicide ... not the CSI stuff). It was always my goal growing up to be the first kid on the block to nail a serial killer.
 
As far as the messy scenes, I've often had the thought that an informational website for the suicidal would be helpful. Step one, get a tarp. Step two, get a five gallon bucket. Step three, GO OUTSIDE! I worked one once, middle of July in Texas and a guy decides to chew on the wrong end of a S&W .41 Mag. It was about three weeks before we got the call ... the sound of the flies crunching under my feet alone about made me gag. Needless to say, I couldn't get the smell out of those uniforms and wound up just burning them.
 
"With a big skibum/snowboarder scene I've encountered more pot and mushrooms than anything.  The harder stuff is here, it just doesn't predominate in our county.  One county away there's lots of gas and oilfield workers.  Guess what they like?" longrifle
 
Surely not meth! Is it mostly locally manufactured? It seems rural areas are just about being overrun with labs anymore. In the last three or four years the big heroin comeback has been running us ragged down here. Has it made it's way up that far yet?
 
"It's not a bad option.  I had three months of academy, three and a half months of FTO, and then I was a one man unit in the call roation taking my turn as primary.  I don't think GOP would want to be in a one stoplight town with two officers; however, some smaller departments, say 20-50, can be a great experience.  He'll have more tense moments than he thinks in a department that size.  Not necessarily SWAT related stuff but you know how "iffy" some domestics can be!" longrifle
 
See, that's what I mean right there. In the bigger departments you really do just stand off to the side while the senior officers make all the decisions. Our academy runs six months with another eight with FTOs. Then the first year or two with a break in that's picking up where your FTOs left off. It's rare to get into a solo and act as primary for at least two to four  years. I had an absolutely amazing break in (think getting to ride around in the car with Dave Rivers for two years) that put me out front and made me take the lead as often as not. Then he'd critqued my performance mercilessly, but still ... it was valuable critism every time. But, I had several classmates that got stuck with guys that insisted they not speak on a call, or not even speak unless spoken to in the car. I can't help but think they'd have been better off working a solo and trying to at least figure things out on their own.
 
A call is a call to the individual officer. Whether the domestic is in Texas, Wyoming, or Alabama. They're all pretty much the same. I can't help but think those officers that are forced to exercise their discretion and judgment earlier on wind up developing that judgment better. I realize all this is a little off topic, but it's just always fascinated me to see four or five year officers waiting around for someone to tell them what to do. For someone like GOP that's interested in law enforcement as a career, I think it's worth considering.
 
"If I had gotten into LE sooner I would have considered applying to a federal agency after about five years in a smaller department.  As it is now, I'm content where I'm at for the time being but I might consider applying with the county someday, since I'd like a chance to do some search and rescue." longrifle
 
I almost made that change about five years ago. Departmental morale was at an all time low around here, due to a completely incompetent administration. Just about the whole department sat down on the job as a silent protest. I had the chance to go to the Treasury department, but I just couldn't get too excited about spending the next twenty years checking to make sure FFLs had their paperwork in order. That's kind of my view of most of the Feds on the whole ... I just can't get very excited about any of them.
 
What kind of search and rescue stuff do they do up there? Is it mostly mountaineering sort of stuff or do yall use air units and all that?
 
 
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ChdNorm       10/20/2007 5:42:24 PM
Panther,
Ft Worth has a really good department. They used to be behind just about everybody in pay, but I seem to recall hearing they got a pretty good bump not too long ago. FWPD would definitely be worth looking into ... if you can drive around in those cars without being TOO embarrassed! Also, Plano and Frisco were hiring like crazy the last time I heard. I have a friend that made the move up to Frisco four or five years ago, and she absolutely loves working there.
 
Why I asked where you are from though ... if you're interested, you're more than welcome to come over and see how things work close up. I will be going into the rotation on days in December, but after three months I'll be taking one of the evening/mid shifts. If you are interested, remind me via direct email (this name @aol) the latter part of Jan or first part of Feb and we can definitely set something up.
 
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Panther       10/25/2007 2:12:57 AM
Sadly ChdNorm, there are self-imposed limitations, which are of my own choosing, to being able to take such steps. While it is regretful for me to follow my dreams currently, there are things bigger than myself that i can't ignore or abidicate my prior private responsibilities for my own desires! I've never thought of it as the death of a dream, but more like putting it on hold in hopes of better days in the future. However, it's always "reassuring" to know that the door of opportunity is still open to me for atleast another decade, by my calcualtions, instead of being firmly shut like i thought it was! I thank you for that!
 
 
Again, i would like to thank you for being willing to give me a ride along as you do your job!  I am always more than interested in riding along with any policeman while they are doing their job. I had done it plenty of times when i was much younger then i currently am, before i had too make a choice between one or the other, which is still effecting me to this day. Sadly however, i won't be in the area much longer (I'm moving over a hundred and fifty miles away) and your most generous offer i am afraid, will have to be passed up for the time being. However, i will definitely let you know via e-mail, if my plans change!
 
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ChdNorm       10/29/2007 1:04:11 AM
I can definitely understand those reasons. If your situation eventually changes, know that the offer is open ended. Of course, considering my driving, it might be just as well. My sister rode with me once ... once!
 
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