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Subject: Blue Light
hailhero    9/6/2007 4:07:15 PM
I am looking for information on a group called "Blue Light". They would have been disbanded in the early 1980's. From what I know Charlie Beckwith's Delta force along with a trainging accident had something to do with this. My father was part of this group but would never say much about it. Apparently they reffered to themselves as the Blue Light Angels and they had a thing for a song called "Gemini Dream" by the Moody Blues. I would love to speak with anyone who served with my father "KZ". Thanks.
 
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gf0012-aust       9/20/2007 3:31:40 AM
I can only reiterate that all of the people I worked with in Fed Govt and as a consultant never ever even hinted at their prev work.  It was invariably dismissed with a throw away line that they worked as a driver or as a low level foreign affairs staff.
 
point of example.  my ex's son in law has been married to her daughter for 8 years.  she only just found out that he's just "not a clerk" in DFAT (equiv of State Dept).  then there's the issues of ex team members who were ex SASR, I only knew that half were ex operators as I was in charge of contracts, I only found out that the rest were ex specwarries as they came to my farewell and the "open team" let it slip.
 
I'm over 50, and that pattern of non disclosure has been very very persistent (amongst commonwealth operators anyway).
 
My BS meter goes ballistic if people who hint at being an ex specwarrie start chatting about their operational past.  Its just not in their nature to give any detail away.  Funnily enough, in environments where one faker has talked it up, the "real" ones will ask some seemingly inane questions and then slowly move away.
 
maybe my experiences are unusual, but they certainly ring true for me.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Nichevo       9/20/2007 3:51:43 AM

My BS meter goes ballistic if people who hint at being an ex specwarrie start chatting about their operational past.  Its just not in their nature to give any detail away.  Funnily enough, in environments where one faker has talked it up, the "real" ones will ask some seemingly inane questions and then slowly move away.

 

No, exactly, no detail is just exactly what I get.  If I knew the inane questions to ask I would know whether to move away ;>

Actually, the two of them met and there was a bit of camaraderie - and a bit of friction...I believe that one thought the other was on the verge of talking too much - suggested the two of them get private and exchange clearances, then reminisce.

My BS- or anyway my Odd-meter picks up some background noise - but does not redline.  The only thing I have to compare to is a high school classmate who I KNOW went to West Point, has been doing odd things with Central Asians - speaks Arabic and Pashto - and while he has been advising me on enlisting, has volunteered nothing about his activities.  Has been in for 14 years (is a major - seems slow, no?  A truly brilliant guy, again this is beyond doubt), and is now teaching some school at Ft Leavenworth.  I would think he was the type of guy who got the Northern Alliance on side, if I had to guess.  A real class act, I hope he runs for President.
 
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GOP       9/20/2007 11:21:12 AM




I remember it became pretty popular for a while for the posers to use the "I was with 'Blue Light' " excuse for a lack of any verifiable service records.



There's a con I go to every year.  There has long been one, and recently a second, older fellow, both of who allude to some sort of black backgrounds.  The funny thing is, I can't even get unit designations out of them.  IMHO that is proper OPSEC...but if I were to try and feel them out, what questions could I in conscience ask and hope for them to answer?

In truth both of them seem dangerous fellows and it is not beyond belief they did wet work or something hush-hush.  But y'all seem able to share more info than they.  What could they have been doing, whacking Kennedy?

Oh, the new guy - his unit was shut down coincident with some accident - training or a mission, I forget - which involved two or three casualties among a very small (near single digit) roster and, combined with something else (infighting?), shut them down.  Any echoes in memory, among Ye Who Know, of who this could be?


First, DO NOT give their names here whatsoever. That's unprofessional and you have no reason to A) know what they do, and B) put their name on an open source commando board.
Secondly, it's none of your business, but in any case these guys could be any number of ex-SOF (or current merc/SAD/whatevers) or even Ex-police/FBI/CIA/NSA/whatevers. Even FBI agents take their security very seriously. Also, their are units in the military that no one EVER discusses in such an enviroment (TF-Orange for example), so it's possible this could be one of them.
 
It's just a job dude. I certainly wouldn't want someone trying to find out info on me or asking me questions about my job. They are probably just focused on the convention and want to have a good/informative time. Leave 'em be, and quit asking questions on here about guys you have no need to know about. At least, thats what I think.
 
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Nichevo       9/20/2007 3:44:20 PM








I remember it became pretty popular for a while for the posers to use the "I was with 'Blue Light' " excuse for a lack of any verifiable service records.





There's a con I go to every year.  There has long been one, and recently a second, older fellow, both of who allude to some sort of black backgrounds.  The funny thing is, I can't even get unit designations out of them.  IMHO that is proper OPSEC...but if I were to try and feel them out, what questions could I in conscience ask and hope for them to answer?

In truth both of them seem dangerous fellows and it is not beyond belief they did wet work or something hush-hush.  But y'all seem able to share more info than they.  What could they have been doing, whacking Kennedy?

Oh, the new guy - his unit was shut down coincident with some accident - training or a mission, I forget - which involved two or three casualties among a very small (near single digit) roster and, combined with something else (infighting?), shut them down.  Any echoes in memory, among Ye Who Know, of who this could be?



First, DO NOT give their names here whatsoever. That's unprofessional and you have no reason to A) know what they do, and B) put their name on an open source commando board.

Secondly, it's none of your business, but in any case these guys could be any number of ex-SOF (or current merc/SAD/whatevers) or even Ex-police/FBI/CIA/NSA/whatevers. Even FBI agents take their security very seriously. Also, their are units in the military that no one EVER discusses in such an enviroment (TF-Orange for example), so it's possible this could be one of them.

 

It's just a job dude. I certainly wouldn't want someone trying to find out info on me or asking me questions about my job. They are probably just focused on the convention and want to have a good/informative time. Leave 'em be, and quit asking questions on here about guys you have no need to know about. At least, thats what I think.

What the hell did I say?  Did I give names?  Did I offer to give names?  Or, rather, did I decline to do so?

So far it's you who have given me intel:  that NSA has operators (I had not seen indication of this outside of The X-Files), and that such a thing as "TF-Orange" exists.  I assume this is trivial since you have let it out in public, and also since, despite your long documented efforts, you are not a serving member yourself, IIRC.


But sure, I am a Chinese Russian Jewish Islamist Commie Nazi spy.  Of course, killing or kidnapping or otherwise bothering these guys depends more upon their possible service histories, than on their names and where to find them in March 2008, which is the only part I know.  After all, we infiltrators and headcutters are so very choosy about who we kill.  Imagine if we assassinated an HRT guy thinking he was a SAD guy, oh the humiliation.


Take a chill pill, GOP.  Nobody has told me anything I don't need to know, and doubtless no one will.  I believe I won't, either, as if I could.  I may not be educated in it, but I am as conscious of OPSEC as you.
 
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GOP       9/20/2007 4:09:37 PM
















I remember it became pretty popular for a while for the posers to use the "I was with 'Blue Light' " excuse for a lack of any verifiable service records.







There's a con I go to every year.  There has long been one, and recently a second, older fellow, both of who allude to some sort of black backgrounds.  The funny thing is, I can't even get unit designations out of them.  IMHO that is proper OPSEC...but if I were to try and feel them out, what questions could I in conscience ask and hope for them to answer?

In truth both of them seem dangerous fellows and it is not beyond belief they did wet work or something hush-hush.  But y'all seem able to share more info than they.  What could they have been doing, whacking Kennedy?

Oh, the new guy - his unit was shut down coincident with some accident - training or a mission, I forget - which involved two or three casualties among a very small (near single digit) roster and, combined with something else (infighting?), shut them down.  Any echoes in memory, among Ye Who Know, of who this could be?





First, DO NOT give their names here whatsoever. That's unprofessional and you have no reason to A) know what they do, and B) put their name on an open source commando board.



Secondly, it's none of your business, but in any case these guys could be any number of ex-SOF (or current merc/SAD/whatevers) or even Ex-police/FBI/CIA/NSA/whatevers. Even FBI agents take their security very seriously. Also, their are units in the military that no one EVER discusses in such an enviroment (TF-Orange for example), so it's possible this could be one of them.



 



It's just a job dude. I certainly wouldn't want someone trying to find out info on me or asking me questions about my job. They are probably just focused on the convention and want to have a good/informative time. Leave 'em be, and quit asking questions on here about guys you have no need to know about. At least, thats what I think.



What the hell did I say?  Did I give names?  Did I offer to give names?  Or, rather, did I decline to do so?

So far it's you who have given me intel:  that NSA has operators (I had not seen indication of this outside of The X-Files), and that such a thing as "TF-Orange" exists.  I assume this is trivial since you have let it out in public, and also since, despite your long documented efforts, you are not a serving member yourself, IIRC.


But sure, I am a Chinese Russian Jewish Islamist Commie Nazi spy.  Of course, killing or kidnapping or otherwise bothering these guys depends more upon their possible service histories, than on their names and where to find them in March 2008, which is the only part I know.  After all, we infiltrators and headcutters are so very choosy about who we kill.  Imagine if we assassinated an HRT guy thinking he was a SAD guy, oh the humiliation.


Take a chill pill, GOP.  Nobody has told me anything I don't need to know, and doubtless no one will.  I believe I won't, either, as if I could.  I may not be educated in it, but I am as conscious of OPSEC as you.

You stated that youcould post names. That is highly unprofessional. Post names? Why the fuck do you want to know who these people are or what they did?
You make light of the fact that you could be a terrorist or whatever "Chinese russian jewish islamist commie nazi spy". Those people do exist (obviously not in that combination), so you might want to grow up before you start chewing me out for being concerned about such things.
Where the hell have I tried to state I was a member in the armed forces? You
 
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Nichevo       9/20/2007 4:37:20 PM






















I remember it became pretty popular for a while for the posers to use the "I was with 'Blue Light' " excuse for a lack of any verifiable service records.









There's a con I go to every year.  There has long been one, and recently a second, older fellow, both of who allude to some sort of black backgrounds.  The funny thing is, I can't even get unit designations out of them.  IMHO that is proper OPSEC...but if I were to try and feel them out, what questions could I in conscience ask and hope for them to answer?

In truth both of them seem dangerous fellows and it is not beyond belief they did wet work or something hush-hush.  But y'all seem able to share more info than they.  What could they have been doing, whacking Kennedy?

Oh, the new guy - his unit was shut down coincident with some accident - training or a mission, I forget - which involved two or three casualties among a very small (near single digit) roster and, combined with something else (infighting?), shut them down.  Any echoes in memory, among Ye Who Know, of who this could be?







First, DO NOT give their names here whatsoever. That's unprofessional and you have no reason to A) know what they do, and B) put their name on an open source commando board.





Secondly, it's none of your business, but in any case these guys could be any number of ex-SOF (or current merc/SAD/whatevers) or even Ex-police/FBI/CIA/NSA/whatevers. Even FBI agents take their security very seriously. Also, their are units in the military that no one EVER discusses in such an enviroment (TF-Orange for example), so it's possible this could be one of them.





 





It's just a job dude. I certainly wouldn't want someone trying to find out info on me or asking me questions about my job. They are probably just focused on the convention and want to have a good/informative time. Leave 'em be, and quit asking questions on here about guys you have no need to know about. At least, thats what I think.





What the hell did I say?  Did I give names?  Did I offer to give names?  Or, rather, did I decline to do so?

So far it's you who have given me intel:  that NSA has operators (I had not seen indication of this outside of The X-Files), and that such a thing as "TF-Orange" exists.  I assume this is trivial since you have let it out in public, and also since, despite your long documented efforts, you are not a serving member yourself, IIRC.


But sure, I am a Chinese Russian Jewish Islamist Commie Nazi spy.  Of course, killing or kidnapping or otherwise bothering these guys depends more upon their possible service histories, than on their names and where to find them in March 2008, which is the only part I know.  After all, we infiltrators and headcutters are so very choosy about who we kill.  Imagine if we assassinated an HRT guy thinking he was a SAD guy, oh the humiliation.


Take a chill pill, GOP.  Nobody has told me anything I don't need to know, and doubtless no one will.  I believe I won't, either, as if I could.  I may not be educated in it, but I am as conscious of OPSEC as you.


You stated that youcould post names. That is highly unprofessional. Post names? Why the fuck do you want to know who these people are or what they did?


I said that I knew their names, not that I would post them.  When offered the chance to wash them vs. the SEALs I declined.  I would ask "Can you read?" but I'm not trying to insult you.  You're already mad enough.

Why?  Because I'm curious.  If these guys ever were in the life they are out of it, and if the Finn was planting taps on Soviet undersea cables in the 1970s, say, or Irish was training Contras, I think that info is past its prime.  It would mildly affect my relationships in that I could, as GF says, slowly back away and go drinking with someone else.  Why do people want to know if SEAL poseurs are poseurs?
 
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GOP       9/20/2007 8:50:34 PM


































I remember it became pretty popular for a while for the posers to use the "I was with 'Blue Light' " excuse for a lack of any verifiable service records.











There's a con I go to every year.  There has long been one, and recently a second, older fellow, both of who allude to some sort of black backgrounds.  The funny thing is, I can't even get unit designations out of them.  IMHO that is proper OPSEC...but if I were to try and feel them out, what questions could I in conscience ask and hope for them to answer?

In truth both of them seem dangerous fellows and it is not beyond belief they did wet work or something hush-hush.  But y'all seem able to share more info than they.  What could they have been doing, whacking Kennedy?

Oh, the new guy - his unit was shut down coincident with some accident - training or a mission, I forget - which involved two or three casualties among a very small (near single digit) roster and, combined with something else (infighting?), shut them down.  Any echoes in memory, among Ye Who Know, of who this could be?










First, DO NOT give their names here whatsoever. That's unprofessional and you have no reason to A) know what they do, and B) put their name on an open source commando board.








Secondly, it's none of your business, but in any case these guys could be any number of ex-SOF (or current merc/SAD/whatevers) or even Ex-police/FBI/CIA/NSA/whatevers. Even FBI agents take their security very seriously. Also, their are units in the military that no one EVER discusses in such an enviroment (TF-Orange for example), so it's possible this could be one of them.








 








It's just a job dude. I certainly wouldn't want someone trying to find out info on me or asking me questions about my job. They are probably just focused on the convention and want to have a good/informative time. Leave 'em be, and quit asking questions on here about guys you have no need to know about. At least, thats what I think.







What the hell did I say?  Did I give names?  Did I offer to give names?  Or, rather, did I decline to do so?

So far it's you who have given me intel:  that NSA has operators (I had not seen indication of this outside of The X-Files), and that such a thing as "TF-Orange" exists.  I assume this is trivial since you have let it out in public, and also since, despite your long documented efforts, you are not a serving member yourself, IIRC.


But sure, I am a Chinese Russian Jewish Islamist Commie Nazi spy.  Of course, killing or kidnapping or otherwise bothering these guys depends more upon their possible service histories, than on their names and where to find them in March 2008, which is the only part I know.  After all, we infiltrators and headcutters are so very choosy about who we kill.  Imagine if we assassinated an HRT guy thinking he was a SAD guy, oh the humiliation.


Take a chill pill, GOP.  Nobody has told me anything I don't need to know, and doubtless no one will.&nb
 
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Nichevo       9/20/2007 10:37:28 PM
You went long (and so did I) so let me make this one short.

1)  I just meant you acted like you knew something about how I was getting on dangerous ground.  You couldn't really *know* if this was so.  Bygones.

2)  Cool, yo.  I felt I was being delicate enough.  As I said, I guess the test is that no one else has anything to say.  No problem.

3)  By vanilla SOF you mean like Rangers?  I figure they would pony up to that.  The implication strongly seems to be black ops from what I gather, from my read on them and the things they let slip.  I just don't know if and how much they are dramatizing.  They have said NOTHING/can't talk about it which is either total BS or the real thing I figure.  But if black ops isn't Delta, SAD, 2506, whatever, I don;t know what it would be.  I guess that gets back to the can't talk about it thing.

4)  Chillax, man.  Which is what I meant by an attitude check.  I didn;t mean an attitude adjustment like wall-to-wall counseling or banning or anything.  I was just trying to say "chillax" another way.  Quite right nobody is the boss of youor me, which is the same point I was making.  Cool, again.

5)  Actually on another post I think you said you are getting looked at again for BUD/S.  So hurrah for you. 

More advice you don't necessarily need or want, but is free:

If it is for real she will wait, etc.  You are very young, bless your heart and people in the life have to deal with exactly that.  If you were ready to get killed or tortured in some hole someplace, I hope you were thinking of those you'd leave behind too.

Everything CAN wait, but in fact this is the best time of your life for such a challenge, and your country needs you now.  I should have quit my job in 2001.  I should have dropped out of college in 1990, really, if I knew then what I know now...

What is S&C?  Good luck with that or whichever way you go.

6)  Actually you can tell me something:  I am 35.  I may even be too old to become an officer, which I tend to think is best for me.  When I was 18 I would have gone for some form of ass-kicking, but now I think my mind is my deadliest weapon.  I would have said "biggest" but in fact that would be my fat ass, I am not obese (in my mind), but frankly I have a lot of weight to lose to enlist at all, let alone go HSLD.  Computer careers often lead to lardbutt.  I'm physically quite strong but heavy as I said, no wind, out of shape.  And when you get to be my age (ah to be 17 again!  Damn!) things start to ache.

You are always talking about conditioning - how do I lose 70 lbs and get in shape to pass the physical?  Where do I start? 

7)  So we're good now, right?  ;>
 
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Bluelight5    Blue Light   6/15/2011 9:44:39 PM
I was there as DCO, along with Joe Lupyak CSM (SON TAY RAIDER) and COL Bob Mountrel as CO.
John Berry (below) has it right, "it was an interim force until Delta came on line." Operations and training were carried out at Mott Lake (Ft Bragg, NC) and a truly outstanding "home made" Sniper Trainig Program . Originally all members were "finger" volunteers from within the 5th SFG (Abn) and yes Charlie Beckwith did not want anything to do with our soldiers when Delta went on line. Chalie wanted to fill Bull Simons boots and his frsrt big show "DESERT STORM" culminated in a disaster!! Let's give Honor to where Honor is due. COL Bob Mountel, who today has an irreparable llness WAS BLUE LIGHT COMMANDER WHILE CHARLIE WAS ORGANIZING DELTA. And we did a few good things in tne interim!!! As a "plank holder" in the Special Ops world , let us not forget the contributions of Bob Mountel, Joe Lupyak, and MG Jack McMull (CG, Special Warefare Center then, recently deceased in Melbourne , FL)  among may excellent officers and NCO's. Charlie did badmouth Blue Light = he has his own personal  demons from Viet Nam and coud not tolerate those peers that were better than him, professionally and as a human being. I retired after 20 years service and was honored to have been there with Bob Mountel and Joe Lupyak. My Legion of Merit does not lie - Blue Light carried out five (5) successful missions.
 
Frank T Rivera - LTC, USA, Ret  
 
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