Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Commandos and Special Operations Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: MARSOC, ordered out of Afghanistan...
mough    3/24/2007 8:45:57 AM
Marine unit ordered out of Afghanistan ROBERT BURNS Associated Press WASHINGTON - Marines accused of shooting and killing civilians after a suicide bombing in Afghanistan are under U.S. investigation, and their entire unit has been ordered to leave the country, officials said Friday. Army Maj. Gen. Francis H. Kearney III, head of Special Operations Command Central, ordered the unit of about 120 Marines out of Afghanistan and initiated an investigation into the March 4 incident, said Lt. Col. Lou Leto, spokesman at Kearney's command headquarters in Tampa, Fla. It is highly unusual for any combat unit, either special operations or conventional, to have its mission cut short. A spokesman for the Marine unit, Maj. Cliff Gilmore, said it is in the process of leaving Afghanistan, but he declined to provide details on the timing and new location, citing a need for security. In the March 4 incident in Nangahar province, an explosives-rigged minivan crashed into a convoy of Marines that U.S. officials said also came under fire from gunmen. As many as 10 Afghans were killed and 34 wounded as the convoy made an escape. Injured Afghans said the Americans fired on civilian cars and pedestrians as they sped away. U.S. military officials said militant gunmen shot at Marines and may have caused some of the civilian casualties. President Hamid Karzai condemned the incident, which was one among several involving U.S. forces in which civilians were killed and injured. Leto, the spokesman at Special Operations Command Central headquarters, said the Marines, after being ambushed, responded in a way that created "perceptions (that) have really damaged the relationship between the local population and this unit." Therefore, he said, "the general felt it was best to move them out of that area." Gilmore said the Marine company would complete its overseas deployment with the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit, which is the larger unit it sailed with from Camp Lejeune, N.C., in January, but it will no longer operate in Afghanistan. Of the four Marine Special Operations Command companies that have been established since the command was created in February 2006, the one ordered out of Afghanistan was the first to deploy abroad, Gilmore said. By September 2008 there are to be nine companies operating as part of two special operations battalions, he said. For years the Marines resisted creating special operations units, arguing that would run counter to their philosophy of viewing all Marines as elite fighters and not singling out elements as special. But former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld pressed them to establish a separate command - the Marine Special Operations Command - to train and equip forces for the multi-service Special Operations Command. There are about 25,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan, mostly conventional combat forces and support units whoops
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: PREV  1 2 3
dirtykraut       3/29/2007 10:05:27 PM
GOP, I wouldn't call the taliban amateurs. Those boys can fight. They have been firing AK's in tribal wars when most of today's spec operators were chasing girls in high school.
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine       4/1/2007 12:40:03 AM




If this was another unit it wouldn't even be an issue.  But somehow this calls into question their ability as Spec. Operators. 


Yes, it does.  If they were line infantry, such following of standard infantry ROE's of responding to an ambush with superior firepower would be understandable, however as "special operators", perhaps they should have known better?

 This is obviously a political move, in removing the unit to appease the Afghanis.  However the action could set back our efforts in the region by months, as people do not forget civilian deaths easily.

 

This is beyond a political move.  This is not the fist SOF unit to kill alot of civilians in Collateral Damage whether a Airstrike or cross fire, but it is the first time a unit was sent home.
 
If it were political then every unit in the past would have went home.
 
And I don't know what Superhuman SOF team wouldn't have shot their way out of that ambush as you seem to be

insinuating, Jedi mind tricks don't work on hot lead.


 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine       4/1/2007 12:51:52 AM

GOP, I wouldn't call the taliban amateurs. Those boys can fight. They have been firing AK's in tribal wars when most of today's spec operators were chasing girls in high school.


Amateurs no, but your talking about guys making training videos firing AKs fr/ the hip(generalization).  Persistent, yes.  Brave, maybe.

But proper technique and tactics have not been there forte until recent improvements, which suggest outside help.

 
Quote    Reply

GOP       4/1/2007 12:54:40 AM




GOP, I wouldn't call the taliban amateurs. Those boys can fight. They have been firing AK's in tribal wars when most of today's spec operators were chasing girls in high school.




Amateurs no, but your talking about guys making training videos firing AKs fr/ the hip(generalization).  Persistent, yes.  Brave, maybe.

But proper technique and tactics have not been there forte until recent improvements, which suggest outside help.



Yeah, exactly. I was saying that compared to the guys who have been in the AQ camps, they are amatuers.
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine       4/1/2007 1:03:12 AM
Also let not forget about the PR victory this is.  In my opinion this short-sighted General did more to hurt his C-I efforts than letting MSOC-F stay ever could.
 
If you(Taliban) can get an entire High-Speed unit like that sent home over a few collateral deaths, how many more civ-death incidents are coming.  They(Taliban) could give a F about civs.
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine       4/1/2007 1:04:10 AM
Also let not forget about the PR victory this is.  In my opinion this short-sighted General did more to hurt his C-I efforts than letting MSOC-F stay ever could.
 
If you(Taliban) can get an entire High-Speed unit like that sent home over a few collateral deaths, how many more civ-death incidents are coming.  They(Taliban) could give a F about civs.
 
Quote    Reply

BadNews    Interesting Twist   9/22/2007 12:10:48 AM
Today on Orielly factor Col David hunt blast USA Lt Gen Francis H. Kearney III,
 
1. In recent days he demanded courts Martial for an Army Special Forces Captain and Sgt who shot and killed a HVT in afganistan for violating ROE's despite the fact that TWO SEPARATE USA agencies investigated and cleared the pair of any violation.
 
2. Col. Hunt points out that Lt Gen Kearny is the same General (Then Maj Gen) that ordered MARSOC out of Afgan territory after this firefight.
 
The transcript and video of this segment not posted on FOX NEWS site as of this posting but I am certain it will be soon.
 
Now, if this holds up, and I am sure we will hear more in the coming days, it smacks of politcal concerns hampering military efforts.
 
Will be interesting to see where this goes.
 
Quote    Reply

Nichevo       9/22/2007 2:55:20 AM
So you're thinking Kearney is a PC wussy?
 
Quote    Reply

sanman    Goofy   9/22/2007 12:45:07 PM
You people are goofy. You're fighting yet another war with one arm tied behind your back, even after having so loudly proclaimed to never again repeat the mistakes of Vietnam. And in spite of this, you're all sitting around commenting about the frivolous finer points, when clearly the whole repetition of 1-arm-tied-behind-the-back means this whole exercise is doomed to failure.

I'm sure that after this is all over, you'll once again return to loudly proclaiming to never again repeat the mistakes of Vietnam/Afghanistan/Iraq -- once again.

Some people just can't learn -- or even catch onto the fact that they're failing to learn.

 
Quote    Reply

BadNews       9/22/2007 12:45:42 PM

So you're thinking Kearney is a PC wussy?


Col Hunt came out and said it!
 
I strongly suspect it, especially after the Green Beret Sniper Pair, TWO Agencies investiagted and found them not only incompliance with the ROE, but acting within the bounds of their orders to expose, pursue and Kill or capture this particular target.
 
Secondly, the MARSOC that was expelled from Afganistan was not sent home, but returned to MEU and saw further action in Iraq. You tell me what it looks like.
 
Quote    Reply
PREV  1 2 3



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics