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Subject: What do SARCs do?
colts    2/2/2007 6:32:24 PM
a good friend of mine has wanted to be a navy seal his whole life, anyway his eye sight is way to bad and they said he cant get a waiver for it (he is in Corpsman A school right now in illinios) they said he might be able to get SARC, and he asked me to find out all i can about it. Ive done some research but cant find much detailed info. What I found out was that they are Corpsman attached to Force Recon battalions, and they go through all the same schools as FR. Is this true? and is there more?
 
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BadNews       2/7/2007 10:57:41 PM








Hey Kid, I am beginning to think that you don't read what is posted thouroughly. By NOT THERE yet the inference was that MARSOC is not yet totally integrated into the SOCOM community. That in NO WAY means there is any less capabilty, on the contrary I know from being there that the the concious decision to keep the USMC ourt of the SOCOM community in the past was often misinterpeted to mean that there was a lack of capabilty.





 





You will find few less Gung Ho Marine than I I assure you, and your EsSpirit De Corps to me is refreshing, that said. You have to deal with facts to maintain creditabilty.





 





Fact 1 - Det 1 which you have been referring to was the experiment/ Demo unit that was essential the test to show that the USMC concept of how to organize and deploy a SOCOM type unit would work, It was a tremendous Success. But that in it self does not mean that the Coirps is 100% there.  The Permament Units are now forming which means not there yet1 You will never hear me state or t=otherwise infer a lac of Capability on the contrary, I have been an advocate for just such a concept in the Corps for 20 years. The reason why the Corps was not in the community was a decision by the Corps to keep the assests totally in support of the MEU, The changing world with GWOT changed that and from what you have said before you were in fact a part of that change when you were deployed.





 





Fact 2 The US operates as a Total Force, I am proud of my service to the Corps, but I am also well versed in what the Corps part in the big picture is. The US ARMED FORCES IS a TOTAL FORCE, we are all part of a large dynamic and flexible team., It is about time that my beloved Corps realized that MARSOC was the way to go. But be advised, there are still many changes that need to be made as MARSOC evolves, that is not a bad thing at all, and again, does in no way diminish the capabalities of what Force Recon is and does . No one said that.





 





Fact 3 The enemy is the Global threat both physical and perceived, You would forward your cause much faster and farther by recognizing that no force, is 100% of where it wants to be or where it is heading. The Military and especially the Corps is an ever evolving, ever developing and never static. If it were, in fact if any army were it would perish







No I'm not debating whether MARSOC is ready yet, as far as form for missions.  But when GOP chimed in he seems to believes that units like FR are not in the same performance bracket.  I'm making it clear to him that the report from SOCOM states that FR are and the rest of the units that combined to form Det are not only in the same bracket but has many capabilties beyond that of the TEIR II SOF and are on par with the TIER I  SMUs. 



 



And to inform him they received no training different then an MSPF work up.



 



I wasn't coming at you at all, I was dispelling his misinformation.




Force Recon is awesome, however, I simply do not believe that their DA abilities is on par with SMU's, or better than SF DA platoons, or a SEAL platoon. It's as simple as that. And 1 SOCOM report doesn't mean anything, as SOCOM has written doezens of reports stating dozens of things.


You really want to get him going don't you GOP :)
Look at risk of opening a whole new can of chest beating, let me say this
 
1. Force Recon is that RECON they are not designed nor are they meant to be an assualt Force, But with true Recon in mind. Ther is none better.
 
2. Comparing any SF Unit is subjective at best, for example, did you know that in the teams, there are separate teams/platoons w
 
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GOP       2/8/2007 1:04:59 AM













Hey Kid, I am beginning to think that you don't read what is posted thouroughly. By NOT THERE yet the inference was that MARSOC is not yet totally integrated into the SOCOM community. That in NO WAY means there is any less capabilty, on the contrary I know from being there that the the concious decision to keep the USMC ourt of the SOCOM community in the past was often misinterpeted to mean that there was a lack of capabilty.







 







You will find few less Gung Ho Marine than I I assure you, and your EsSpirit De Corps to me is refreshing, that said. You have to deal with facts to maintain creditabilty.







 







Fact 1 - Det 1 which you have been referring to was the experiment/ Demo unit that was essential the test to show that the USMC concept of how to organize and deploy a SOCOM type unit would work, It was a tremendous Success. But that in it self does not mean that the Coirps is 100% there.  The Permament Units are now forming which means not there yet1 You will never hear me state or t=otherwise infer a lac of Capability on the contrary, I have been an advocate for just such a concept in the Corps for 20 years. The reason why the Corps was not in the community was a decision by the Corps to keep the assests totally in support of the MEU, The changing world with GWOT changed that and from what you have said before you were in fact a part of that change when you were deployed.







 







Fact 2 The US operates as a Total Force, I am proud of my service to the Corps, but I am also well versed in what the Corps part in the big picture is. The US ARMED FORCES IS a TOTAL FORCE, we are all part of a large dynamic and flexible team., It is about time that my beloved Corps realized that MARSOC was the way to go. But be advised, there are still many changes that need to be made as MARSOC evolves, that is not a bad thing at all, and again, does in no way diminish the capabalities of what Force Recon is and does . No one said that.







 







Fact 3 The enemy is the Global threat both physical and perceived, You would forward your cause much faster and farther by recognizing that no force, is 100% of where it wants to be or where it is heading. The Military and especially the Corps is an ever evolving, ever developing and never static. If it were, in fact if any army were it would perish










No I'm not debating whether MARSOC is ready yet, as far as form for missions.  But when GOP chimed in he seems to believes that units like FR are not in the same performance bracket.  I'm making it clear to him that the report from SOCOM states that FR are and the rest of the units that combined to form Det are not only in the same bracket but has many capabilties beyond that of the TEIR II SOF and are on par with the TIER I  SMUs. 





 





And to inform him they received no training different then an MSPF work up.





 





I wasn't coming at you at all, I was dispelling his misinformation.






Force Recon is awesome, however, I simply do not believe that their DA abilities is on par with SMU's, or better than SF DA platoons, or a SEAL platoon. It's as simple as that. And 1 SOCOM report doesn't mean anything, as SOCOM has written doezens of reports stating dozens of things.



You really want to get him going don't you GOP :)

Look at risk of
 
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BadNews       2/8/2007 2:29:31 AM
You'll make a fine SEAL someday kid, .........But I think some real SEALS might question your statement about room clearing (Joking)
 
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GOP       2/8/2007 3:05:08 AM

You'll make a fine SEAL someday kid, .........But I think some real SEALS might question your statement about room clearing (Joking)


Thanks. LOL, what I mean't to say was something like "for example, a SF DA platoon MAY be better...", but it didn't appear on the screen that way
 
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GOP       2/8/2007 3:07:25 AM
Quick question for you guys: Is Special Tactics Team 21 (AFSOC) considered an SMU? From what I have read, they are AFOC's tier 1 unit.
 
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SCCOMarine    GOP   2/8/2007 8:38:39 PM

I'm not trying to compare units, but that’s what you keep taking out of it.  Can you compare units?  No, not as a whole.  But you can compare areas where they over lap.

EX:

The Army’s SF have been forming DA companies to take some of the weight off of the SMUs, I believe its 1 per group.  When each Co. gets certified to deploy the have to shoot to the same standards as the SMUs or their not Certified to Deploy.  Their shooting skills are rated on par with the SMUs.  Does that mean that a SF DA plt is on par with DevGru or a Delta Team???  No!!! But their DA skills are.  Which mean they can take on select SMU DA missions to free the up.

 

Why is that important that they have that distinction, and that SOCOM recognizes that?  Do you understand that when Info on a HVT comes thru, if an SMU is not available, it has to be cleared to a Tier II SOF unit, the nearest SOF just can’t take the mission.  And depending on the HVT that Tier II SOF might not get clearance at all.

 

So when the SOCOM report states, GOP, that the Det's DA and robust Intel capability is on par with Tier I SOF that means something as far as the missions they are cleared for.

 

Does that mean that FR and the Intel section is on par Delta or DevGru?  No, but they have select capabilities that are which helped determine mission assignment if an Tier I level mission comes down the Pipe and their tied up.

 

Apply understand to exactly whats being said, and stop doing gloss overs.

 
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SCCOMarine       2/8/2007 8:58:21 PM

Also SCCO, who the heck are you to say that Force Recon is better at DA than SF DA platoons or the Teams? Get your head out of your a** and quit talking sh*t. When you get to FR, then I am guessing you arrogant attitude will change. And if you are already in FR, then you are disgracing your unit with your arrogance and smart-a** attitude. You are living up to the whole generalization of Marines being young, immature, and arrogant. What you say and continue to say has hit a nerve, and I'm getting tired of you clogging our forum up with crap... and you are also one of the most immature poster we have had here in a while. Look at all of the name calling in your other threads, that shows that you can't prove your point in a disagreement like a mature adult, but more like an immature kid (it reminds me of my young niece: "No, you shutup you sillyhead"). Yet you expect us to take your point of view seriously. Have you ever worked with anyone outside of FR? CAN >YOU< say without a doubt that Det's DA platoon is better at DA than SF DA platoons or SEALs? Have you ever worked with CAG (heck, or even DET's DA platoon) or ST6 to compare their abilities with Det? I am guessing that the guys who are actually in Det would hate you for your arrogance...as that makes >THEM< and >YOU< look bad.

 

Oh yeah, let me go ahead and get it out of the way for you (your response): "I know you are but what am I...blah,blah,blah (5 paragraphs worth)....immature name calling...blah, blah, blah...SOCOM report".


Can I say with out a doubt the DA skills of FR are better then Tier II SOF.......no. 
But on the other Hand SOCOM sent their team of experts to judge what the Corps has to offer and rate their ability. 
 
The SOCOM EXPERTS writing the report stated the Det's DA and Intel Skills are on par with Tier I SOF.  SOCOM, Not me and definitely not some Piss *ss 16yr old wanna be kid, hyped off of PS2.  SOCOM!!
 
"Do you have your head in the Sand".  "I don't care what the report says."  Are you F*cking retarded? Whats wrong with you.  SOCOM wrote the report, let me say it slow and phonetic for you SOOOO-CAAAHHHM.  Like SOCOM doesn't know what their talking about but you do!
 
I guess your right and they got it all wrong! 
 
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GOP       2/8/2007 9:11:15 PM




Also SCCO, who the heck are you to say that Force Recon is better at DA than SF DA platoons or the Teams? Get your head out of your a** and quit talking sh*t. When you get to FR, then I am guessing you arrogant attitude will change. And if you are already in FR, then you are disgracing your unit with your arrogance and smart-a** attitude. You are living up to the whole generalization of Marines being young, immature, and arrogant. What you say and continue to say has hit a nerve, and I'm getting tired of you clogging our forum up with crap... and you are also one of the most immature poster we have had here in a while. Look at all of the name calling in your other threads, that shows that you can't prove your point in a disagreement like a mature adult, but more like an immature kid (it reminds me of my young niece: "No, you shutup you sillyhead"). Yet you expect us to take your point of view seriously. Have you ever worked with anyone outside of FR? CAN >YOU< say without a doubt that Det's DA platoon is better at DA than SF DA platoons or SEALs? Have you ever worked with CAG (heck, or even DET's DA platoon) or ST6 to compare their abilities with Det? I am guessing that the guys who are actually in Det would hate you for your arrogance...as that makes >THEM< and >YOU< look bad.



 



Oh yeah, let me go ahead and get it out of the way for you (your response): "I know you are but what am I...blah,blah,blah (5 paragraphs worth)....immature name calling...blah, blah, blah...SOCOM report".




Can I say with out a doubt the DA skills of FR are better then Tier II SOF.......no. 
 
Thanks SCCO, I rest my case.

 
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BadNews    hey SCCO Marine   2/8/2007 9:12:52 PM
Don't get me wrong I am not against you, there are some minor issues we disagree on but on most you are dead on, but you have got to chill just a bit man''''    I know from your MOS and where you were deployed that you have some knowledge of what FR is capable of, and I know from personal experience that they are DA capable and infact very proficiaent, but when people start trying to compare in anyway andy SF unit, there will never be consesus, and the argument will never end.
 
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GOP       2/8/2007 9:25:06 PM




Also SCCO, who the heck are you to say that Force Recon is better at DA than SF DA platoons or the Teams? Get your head out of your a** and quit talking sh*t. When you get to FR, then I am guessing you arrogant attitude will change. And if you are already in FR, then you are disgracing your unit with your arrogance and smart-a** attitude. You are living up to the whole generalization of Marines being young, immature, and arrogant. What you say and continue to say has hit a nerve, and I'm getting tired of you clogging our forum up with crap... and you are also one of the most immature poster we have had here in a while. Look at all of the name calling in your other threads, that shows that you can't prove your point in a disagreement like a mature adult, but more like an immature kid (it reminds me of my young niece: "No, you shutup you sillyhead"). Yet you expect us to take your point of view seriously. Have you ever worked with anyone outside of FR? CAN >YOU< say without a doubt that Det's DA platoon is better at DA than SF DA platoons or SEALs? Have you ever worked with CAG (heck, or even DET's DA platoon) or ST6 to compare their abilities with Det? I am guessing that the guys who are actually in Det would hate you for your arrogance...as that makes >THEM< and >YOU< look bad.



 



Oh yeah, let me go ahead and get it out of the way for you (your response): "I know you are but what am I...blah,blah,blah (5 paragraphs worth)....immature name calling...blah, blah, blah...SOCOM report".




Can I say with out a doubt the DA skills of FR are better then Tier II SOF.......no. 

But on the other Hand SOCOM sent their team of experts to judge what the Corps has to offer and rate their ability. 

 

The SOCOM EXPERTS writing the report stated the Det's DA and Intel Skills are on par with Tier I SOF.  SOCOM, Not me and definitely not some Piss *ss 16yr old wanna be kid, hyped off of PS2.  SOCOM!!

 

"Do you have your head in the Sand".  "I don't care what the report says."  Are you F*cking retarded? Whats wrong with you.  SOCOM wrote the report, let me say it slow and phonetic for you SOOOO-CAAAHHHM.  Like SOCOM doesn't know what their talking about but you do!

 

I guess your right and they got it all wrong! 


Oops, wish we had a edit button, forgot to add some things. Are you a 16 year old piss*ss kid hyped from PS2? No, you are probably a 20something year old hyped from the propaganda the Corps have fed their little kiddies. I've met Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines...and the Marines are the only group I've ever had a problem with (smart-a**ses with their head in the clouds with an extremely overinflated view of their capabilities). I am not the guy who is trying to prove that Det is the best SOF in the world like you seem to be out to prove, look at my posts. I simply don't buy into all of this crap about Det equivalancy to the SMU's at DA or them being better at DA than SF DA platoons or SEAL DA platoons, as you said, they all have extremely high standards. The SOCOM report lists Det's DA platoons as being equivalant to the SMU's (and better than SF and SEALs at DA), but you just said yourself that you cannot compare entire units. Which is it? Go ahead and revert to your USMC training: "Name calling", "Devil Dogs!", "Oorah!", "USMC!".
Quit talking stuff you cannot back up...you simply cannot back it up. I'll take the opinion of guys who have actually operated over your opinion any day of the week. I respect the heck out of Det 1, but it's you I have a problem with. As I have said, you aren't proving anything at all. All your doing is embarrasing the Corps.
 
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