someone posted a link to a discussion board in the uk which seems to have at least in that thread a number of british soldiers past and present. it's interesting to see their impressions of things.

Odierno just took command of III Corps... a good slot for him. It is hte Army's largest all mechanized/armored corps, a role he is more suited for. Shek, in fairness to 4 ID in the first tour...those guys were bounced pilar to post by political decisions and then got "late ot the fight". Also, as the ABCS centric division, they had been training that fight for a decade. Hard to change a 10 year mindset that quickly. The current itteration of 4 ID is doing MUCH better.

AR, Thanks for the word on Odierno - I'm surprised I didn't see any hits when I Googled DefenseLink. I agree that there are mitigating circumstances and that the hunt for Saddam provided pressure for results; however, to write off their heavy-handedness to that is weak IMO. They were letting loose with 25mm and mortar rounds in the sector next to me (probably 3km away) in Samarra and when we called their TOC, even 30 minutes later they hadn't reported contact, which made me wonder if a) it wasn't a sufficient contact to make their key events list or b) the TOC was so far away that it couldn't hear the distinct sound of a Bradley firing and that they weren't too concerned why a Bradley was firing in a city. Even my fellow company commanders across the BDE were surprised at the quickness to move to force (as a contrast, we were in between on the spectrum between 4ID and 101ABN, being much closer to 101ABN in our approach). The differing approaches are completely personality driven IMO, as evidenced by the nearly polar opposite approached taken by myself and a sister company in the battalion.

>>i think the first debacle was more a failure of logistics than fighting skill/spirit. not exactly a bit of history i'm up on.<< My recollection is that it was one of those bad plans/bad senior leadership situations that wound up hanging an otherwise competent and proficient field army out to dry . . .

>>UK has become official USA's b*tch.<< I'd say such is rather comical, but would also think that in any case a British bitch is preferable to that cheapest and most uncultured and crass of whores, France.

"1. My guess is that you probably didn't find too many video cameras during the Falklands because to carry one meant dedicating your rucksack in its entirety, and you needed others to carry the extra batteries to run it - in other words, it was a crew served piece of equipment. Contrast that to today where you can fit a DV video camera in an extra ammo pouch all at the cost of a pound or two." did you hug yourself after that bit of comical genius? Here is a little task for you patriot Americans. Have a go at finding out how many British soldiers were killed by American Armed Forces in the first and second Iraq conflicts. It's a disgustingly high number. America invented friendly fire. Newsflash for you boys, IT'S NOT FRIENDLY! Looks like you boys should have been doing your vehicle recognition courses instead of reading your cam-corder instructions. Professional? you can lie to everyone but yourself

>>did you hug yourself after that bit of comical genius?<< Look, I don't want to call you an idiot, but the shoe seems to fit rather snugly, so I'll beat the rush to do so. These boards are full of people who will happily insult you in ways subtle and none too subtle, but Shek is not one of them (happily, I, however, am). He provided a logically coherent and polite response to your post. The fact that you apparently are utterly lacking in the maturity required to recognize such reflects poorly on you, not on his comments (which are absolutely valid and so obvious as to beg the question of why you did not sort the matter out on your own without having requiring someone else to sort things out for you). >>Here is a little task for you patriot Americans. Have a go at finding out how many British soldiers were killed by American Armed Forces in the first and second Iraq conflicts. It's a disgustingly high number. America invented friendly fire. Newsflash for you boys, IT'S NOT FRIENDLY! << So in short what you are saying is that you are sufficiently simple and intellectually limited that you have no meaningful reply to the incredibly mild and non-hostile bit of reproach you faced, so you have resorted to an attempt at incendiary and insulting rhetoric to cover the lack of intelligence you previously demonstrated. Impressive. Does not incline me to think very highly of folks from the UK, but, fortunately, both these boards and my non-electronic existence amply demonstrate that, while the UK obviously has its share of idiots like yourself, they are no more common than they are anywhere else in the world, despite what your "contributions" to this conversation might suggest. >>Professional? you can lie to everyone but yourself << I'm just going out on a limb here, but my suspicion is that whatever tangential experience you have in the military (or, perhaps, saving the world one FPS video game at a time, or airsofting your way to glory in city parks or whatever "credentials" you think you bring to the table), Shek has a resume that makes you look rather like the whiny and petulant child you have painted yourself as with this last bit "thinking" (using that verb in the absolutely loosest sense of the term) you posted. If you cannot keep your tongue civil, so to speak, perhaps you should keep it in your mouth where it can't embarass you. Just something you may want to think about.

Re:"America invented friendly fire. Newsflash for you boys, IT'S NOT FRIENDLY!" Just been flicking ‘Imperial Warriors – Britain and the Gurkhas’. Concerning the Gurkhas at battle of Tumbledown, it states – “. . . there was an accidental firefight with the Scots Guards in which the Forward Observation Officer with D company was shot in the chest”. I wouldn’t normally reply to this, Americans are big and ugly enough to look after themselves ;), but to say that Americans Invented FF is too stupid for words. FF has been going on since before the fall of Troy. "the UK obviously has its share of idiots like yourself" Oh you better believe it Horsesoldier. Can I just reply to EW3 who thought I was accusing him of causing division between us when I said: "If you want division, go and look at the India and Pakistan boards." I can assure you I wasn’t accusing you of causing division, far from it. What I was TRYING to say was, that after reading the tragi-comedy that is the India and Pakistan boards, we have no real problems between us. My apologies for my poor sentence structure.

Thank you for the note, much appreciated, and glad we are on the same side. You ought to see what us'ems that grue up in Booklyn NYC have dun to her magesties langage. George Bernard Shaw, one said of England and the US "Two countries seperated by a common language". Sure is the truth sometimes. ;) Heck within the US we don't understand each other. Funniest thing I ever saw was and engineer I worked with from Scotland. Angus McKay as I recall. He used to use voice recognition software, which you trained to your voice. Well when talking to us Yanks, he made an effort to speak like we did, but when it came to training his computer he used his normal speak. Nobody could understand what Angus was saying, but sure enough the computer would be printing out what he said. It was hillarious.

DropShort, Welcome back to the conversation. I see that you brought that more strawmen along with you. 1. As far as the response to your Falkland response, there was no comedy intended, although if you felt that I imparted a touch of sarcasm, then that would be a fair assessment. However, based on your flippant response, I couldn't gather whether you are contesting that the technology in 2006 has made it easier and more affordable for soldiers to bring video recorders to war with them vice 1982. 2. As far as your comments about fratricide, I can trace it back as far the Pelopponesian War, where Thucydides recounts examples of the "fog of war" - I am sure that there are examples in ancient texts that are older than Thucydides. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?target=en%2C1&collection=Perseus%3Acollection%3AGreco-Roman&lookup=mistook&formentry=1&template=&searchText=&alts=1&extern=1&doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0200%3B2347%3B1477055&group=work&.cgifields=group&.cgifields=alts&.cgifields=type&.cgifields=extern 3. The UK has experienced some blue on blue incidents as well, so to characterize this as an American only probably is off the mark. http://www.defense-update.com/features/du-2-04/fratricide-2.htm

The first reported ground fratricide incident during Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) occurred shortly after midnight on March 24, when a British Challenger II tank fired on another near Basra. This incident is of particular interest. The two tanks, Britain's most advanced MBT types, were part of a squadron of the Queen's Royal Lancers attached to the 1st Battalion Royal Regiment of Fusliers Battlegroup of the 7th Armoured Brigade.

From what I can gather, the majority of the fratricide incidents are air-to-ground or ground-to-air, which brings us back to your last snide comment about how soldiers should do vehicle recce courses instead of cam-corder instructions. It appears that the issue isn't our budding directors in the Army (notwithstanding the fact that the majority of the videos are actually still shots from digital cameras which are as difficult to use as point and click - and that these skills are actually acquired during their spare time) who made your "unprofessional" videos.