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Subject: ROCN's plan to build twin-hull corvettes.
YelliChink    4/18/2011 4:06:37 PM
http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/sunponyboy-IDF/article?mid=29820&prev=29821&next=29818&l=a&fid=14 For some reason, some Australian ship designer may have involved in this.
 
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YelliChink       4/30/2011 8:21:21 AM

Nah, they'd want the Aegis system at half price and/or then go and only purchase half a shipload of SM-2 missiles. Its not like they havent done it before afterall.

How many times do I have to explain that the Mk.26 launchers have been fully filled in the following fiscal years? You need to stop those BS lies.
 
And tell me that you don't like to pay half for the housing unit you like. It's basic economics. Some people preferring buying old trucks and have ability to maintain or even upgrade, and you accuse them for not willing to spend?
 
Not every country is as lucky as Australia which has valuables underground that can be promised to get loans. Some other countries have to balance budget, but it seems to be out of your comprehension.
 
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YelliChink       4/30/2011 8:47:25 AM

Based on this discussion if he did approve it you would just turn around and say that it is a waste of money, because the "Nanny State" of the US is there to look after Taiwan and that the American's are only concerned with making money off you. It is a circular argument being used by somebody who is only interested in making excuses for his cowardly nation that is only interested in being baby-sat at the expense of others. It is an attitude that isn't much different to that of many long-term welfare recipients who aren't interested in looking after themselves. Be ashamed, very ashamed.



Again your limited understanding of the strategic, financial and political situation are at play, further embarrassing yourself.
 
You overly simplify the content of my words is revelation of your limited intelligence.
 
Tell me why military-industrial complex do not want to make money? The only reason of their existence is milking government defense fund.
 
And tell me how the security of Taiwan can be increased by spending? Spending ON WHAT EXACTLY? 
 
Again you are showing your racist color by false accusing Taiwan as coward. Last time I check your government didn't send out agents to collect HUMINT inside PRC, while we loses a few every year. Our leader is not the one who just went to Beijing begging for money and agreed to commie terms on military exchange program.
 
And comparing us to welfare recipient is simply absurd to the highest degree. Unlike the situation of Israel, we receive zero US military aid, and are subject to all kind of difficulty in acquisition. Since we receive nothing from our arms provider, and only request items to be paid out of our own purse, your analogy is factually false. You need to stop posting while intoxicated.
 
Last but not least, if you think we increase defense budget to 3.5% of GDP can turn the strategic bleakness, then I don't know what you are smoking, or which fantasy La-La land you are residing.  That's not every hard to do considering most of our professional and conscripts are underpaid, but all that matters is % of GDP, right? Even if the money is used on weapons and other military investments, it still doesn't change the fact that we can only sustain about two months of blockade without US/Japan intervention. Actually it could be worse if you actually spend that much, since a lot of our budget is used to guarantee two months of energy supply.
 
But, hey, in your simplistic mind, only % of GDP matters.
 
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SteveJH       5/1/2011 9:07:16 AM

Tell me why military-industrial complex do not want to make money? The only reason of their existence is milking government defense fund. 
The "military-industrial complex" exists to provide a service, nothing more. Cut
the conspiracy theory crap.

And tell me how the security of Taiwan can be increased by spending? Spending ON WHAT EXACTLY? 

 Aircraft, Missiles, Submarines, Surface to Air missile systems, i'm sure there
are plenty of things the Republic of China could purchase to increase
their security. Assuming they don't intend to peacefully merge with the PRC in a
few years time or so.

 
Again you are showing your racist color by false accusing Taiwan as coward. Last time I check your government didn't send out agents to collect HUMINT inside PRC, while we loses a few every year. Our leader is not the one who just went to Beijing begging for money and agreed to commie terms on military exchange program.

 How do you know what the Australian government does or does not do? Its not like
that sort of stuff is exactly advertised.

 Last but not least, if you think we increase defense budget to 3.5% of GDP can turn the strategic bleakness, then I don't know what you are smoking, or which fantasy La-La land you are residing.  That's not every hard to do considering most of our professional and conscripts are underpaid, but all that matters is % of GDP, right? Even if the money is used on weapons and other military investments, it still doesn't change the fact that we can only sustain about two months of blockade without US/Japan intervention. Actually it could be worse if you actually spend that much, since a lot of our budget is used to guarantee two months of energy supply.

 So spend more to increase it from two months to six months then.
 But, hey, in your simplistic mind, only % of GDP matters.

 Its the only ways to estimate the portion of a countries economy that is
directed towards the defense of the nation. Ie. how important the nation
considers its defense to be or what the nation considers the threat to be. If
you can think of a better way please feel free to suggest it.


 
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heraldabc    Some points.    5/1/2011 12:51:15 PM
Taiwan's electronics industry is FORMIDABLE. There is very little that they can get their hands on and cannot reverse engineer in a hurry. 
 
Taiwan's choices are constrained by politics. Bastards like Jeffrey Immelt and Jim Rogers do have an impact a decidedly negative one.
 
ASTER is  what it is. Australia KNOWS what it is. Hence  STANDARD.    

I would be surprised  if the Jericho did not show up in Taiwanese Livery.
 
The best way to defend against amphibious attack is air-power. The PRC bandits want blockade and blackmail to force a 'political solution'. Hence rockets for the short term and aircraft  carriers for the long term. Their  choices are STUPID.
     
The Taiwanese are a poor small importing island nation under siege.
 
They have to maintain a stable economic base, keep their trade partners in a hostile economic and political environment and still mount a defense. Its a juggling act.
 
What Taiwan needs to do is create a DETERRENT.
 
Italy recently  built a <cough> 'satellite launcher' <cough> that has the classic hall marks  of  a war rocket. 
 
Its  called the VEGA. When you look at it, the historic progenitor from which it descends (Polaris) is painfully obvious. Now I always thought it was suspicious that the three solid fuel stages and one liquid fueled bus(throtable motor that one) resembles the American D-5. Its offered for foreign clients to use as a satellite launcher?
 
Uhm... That is like offering a Todaro as a Disney tourist sub.
 
Just thinking out loud...
 
H.       
 
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Aussiegunneragain       5/1/2011 9:24:52 PM
You could usefully spend the extra to get you up to 3.5% of GDP and beyond with ease, by just replacing and and expanding your largely old to antiquated frigate force. As Herald correctly points out you have a formidable electronics sector, but on top of that you have very competant weapons and shipbuilding sectors, and you operate some very modern French frigates which would give you ideas and technology for the design of a future ship. If political constraints mean that you can't source designs and equipment for new frigates, I think you could though as they are considered to be defensive kit, you clearly could build them yourselves.
 
The reason such an investment is important is because the greatest threat to Taiwan's survival right now is not a direct amphibious invasion, which is a very tough call for the Chinese even without America and Japan helping Taiwan, but strangulation by submarine warfare. Convoy escort missions to countering the submarine threat is likely to be dangerous and it is right that Taiwan should put it's own people on the line to do the grunt work, before asking allies to contribute. If there is something that you can't produce yourself and which you have been constrained from getting politically, such as area air defence ships and submarines, then you can rightly ask allies to contribute those assets during a confrontation.
 
However, by providing the bulk of the anti-submarine escorts you would be proving your commitment to your own defence. You might be surprised at how much more positively your allies respond to this, and how disheartening it would be for the PRC to see a key aspect of their strategy against Taiwan undermined.
 
As it is the very corvettes that you have posted here were, as at December 2010, apparently delayed due to budget constraints. See links.
 
>>
>>
 
Given that a key defensive program established by your own government using your own technology has been subject to apparent delay's due to budget constraints, please stop trying to tell us that your principle problem with defense acquisitions is with the international community. The second article even say's that in order to sell the Taiwanese their ships, the French had to bribe Taiwanese officials to seal the deal. Then the ensuing bribery scandel has become an excuse not to buy further larger ships - whether they are needed or not. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.
 
 
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heraldabc       5/1/2011 10:31:01 PM

Lin said he wondered whether the navy?s apparent lack of determination to complete the project was the result of the Lafayette frigate scandal, which could still be haunting the service.

The Lafayette kickback scandal stems from a 1991 deal to buy six French-made Lafayette-class frigates for US$2.8 billion — a deal that severely strained France?s relations with China at the time.

On May 3, the Ministry of National Defense won a lawsuit it had filed with the Paris-based International Court of Arbitration over the deal, in which the court ruled that the French company, Thomson-CSF (since renamed Thales SA), had engaged in bribery with numerous parties to secure the deal to sell the frigates to Taiwan. The company was ordered to repay the Taiwanese government about US$861 million.
 
The Laugh-it-ups are surface ship JUNK. Buy German or Japanese hulls with British or American outfit. Best hull for the buck. The French are good at subs though. God are they good!     
 
H.
 
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Aussiegunneragain       5/1/2011 11:05:18 PM
The Laugh-it-ups are surface ship JUNK. Buy German or Japanese hulls with British or American outfit. Best hull for the buck.   
 
Or Taiwan could build their own, then they wouldn't have to worry about all these nasty foriegners ripping them off.

The French are good at subs though. God are they good!   
 
I suspect that with all the fuss over the Frigates and with the continued rise of China, the opportunity to get hold of French submarine technology might have passed Taiwan by. 
 
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