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Subject: HMS Queen Elizabeth for the RAN
Volkodav    10/22/2010 5:53:12 PM
I know we can,t afford to maintain or operate her, I know the training and logistics would be a deal killer, but I just can't get over the thought of a proper carrier in the RAN. It is almost like a repeat of the late 70's early 80's, a very capable platform becomes available to Australia due to the short sighted, ideologically driven, stupidity of a new UK government. The question is could we do it, buy the ship, convert her to operate our SH's and restructure our fleet around her?
 
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aussienscale       11/6/2010 6:34:41 AM



What's the point? The RAN will effectively have 2 carriers with the LHDs. These are huge ships, much larger than the old Melbourne. The only real stumbling block is the problem the US is having with the VTOL F-35. Apparently the concentrated rear vectored thrust creates too much heat for any current flight decks, causing buckling and possibly igniting cabling underneath the deck. They are working on a solution, including sections of deck with greater insulation for landings, but it is likely to be costly. We could buy the RN harriers, as they are going out of service, but I suspect they are being retired for good reasons.



The LHD's won't have the facilities to operate F-35C's, even the ski jump has been removed to make room for an extra chopper space.


The Canberra class has not had the ski jump removed
 
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Aussiegunneragain       11/6/2010 9:33:55 PM







What's the point? The RAN will effectively have 2 carriers with the LHDs. These are huge ships, much larger than the old Melbourne. The only real stumbling block is the problem the US is having with the VTOL F-35. Apparently the concentrated rear vectored thrust creates too much heat for any current flight decks, causing buckling and possibly igniting cabling underneath the deck. They are working on a solution, including sections of deck with greater insulation for landings, but it is likely to be costly. We could buy the RN harriers, as they are going out of service, but I suspect they are being retired for good reasons.


The LHD's won't have the facilities to operate F-35C's, even the ski jump has been removed to make room for an extra chopper space.




The Canberra class has not had the ski jump removed



So I see, ta.
 
 
Perhaps there has been a bit of misinformation floating around about this. Anyway, that may mean that the type is easier to convert to escort carrier use than I thought.
 
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Aussiegunneragain       11/6/2010 9:35:19 PM
One thing that did disturb me when I read about the Canberra Class is that it has no point defence missile system or CIWS. I don't think we should be just relying on Nulka's for such important ships!
 
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aussienscale       11/7/2010 1:14:23 AM
Yes there was a lot of mis information on the Canberra Class, but yes definately leaving on the ramp. Although I would love to see us get some B's, its not going to happen, you may see some cross deck action from the Marines and thats about it, you will in the future see UAV's launch from it though.
If your interested here are a few links to look at:
 
This First is pics of the JC1, you will see about 6 pics down there is one of the Spanish Newport Class (same as Kanimbla and Manoora) compare the size difference !!
 
The next is to a Spanish Photo Club and has 18 or so pages of the JC1 and covers from the construction right through to a recent visit to the ship after completion, some great intermal pics
Also on this site, if you go back to the main menu and scroll down until you find Oceania and you will find in the about 3 pages of pics of the Canberra under construction
 
The next is a youtube vid a few days old from the launch of the Spanish F105, good for reference to the AWD, but at the end of the clip he pans back and forth showing the Canberra as she looks from about a week ago
 
Enjoy
 
 
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Aussiegunneragain       11/7/2010 4:05:51 AM

Yes there was a lot of mis information on the Canberra Class, but yes definately leaving on the ramp. Although I would love to see us get some B's, its not going to happen, you may see some cross deck action from the Marines and thats about it, you will in the future see UAV's launch from it though.
Ah well, the way the F-35's and in particular the B's are going there is plenty of time for the decision makers to change their mind before we would be able to get any :-). What is your understanding of the ship's ability to support the type. Would there be any major changes required?
 
Something that had me scratching my head a bit when I saw the video in the link that I provided, was that they were talking about the ships being able to support 2 ARH, 6 MRH and 2 Chinooks - 10 choppers. My original understanding was that the type could take 18 MRH, which taking into account the larger size of the Chinooks I would have thought would have translated into a combination of about 16 aircraft over all. Do you know anything about this?
 
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aussienscale       11/7/2010 5:01:46 PM




Yes there was a lot of mis information on the Canberra Class, but yes definately leaving on the ramp. Although I would love to see us get some B's, its not going to happen, you may see some cross deck action from the Marines and thats about it, you will in the future see UAV's launch from it though.


Ah well, the way the F-35's and in particular the B's are going there is plenty of time for the decision makers to change their mind before we would be able to get any :-). What is your understanding of the ship's ability to support the type. Would there be any major changes required?

 

Something that had me scratching my head a bit when I saw the video in the link that I provided, was that they were talking about the ships being able to support 2 ARH, 6 MRH and 2 Chinooks - 10 choppers. My original understanding was that the type could take 18 MRH, which taking into account the larger size of the Chinooks I would have thought would have translated into a combination of about 16 aircraft over all. Do you know anything about this?


Yes plenty of time for the decision makers, but just not the way we will go, sure it can support the JSF but to what effect and cirtainly in a limited role, they just don't have the capacity of say the Wasp class in fuel and ammo to carry out ops like the marines. So yes it is possible, but the involved costs, even if they were operated and flown by the RAAF would take away from other ares of not just the RAN but the entire ADF.
The actual make up of on board assets will vary depending on what they are being called to do at any given time, we simply don't have the aircraft or the need for any more than that, or course if a real operational requirement came up, say along the lines of East Timor again then the makeup of it would be adjusted accordingly to the mission role. I dont think you will see the Chinooks on there too often, the blades have to be folded for them to go below and stored which is manpower and time expensive, more than likely you will see them flying on and off from land or stowed below decks for transport to areas of operation overseas such as A/Stan
 
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