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Subject: AUSTRALIAN special forces troops were left for dead
BLUIE006    10/22/2010 4:55:41 AM
AUSTRALIAN special forces troops were left for dead by two Dutch attack helicopters during a deadly ambush in Afghanistan. McPhedran, Ian. 2010. When the smoke cleared, one American was dead and seven SAS soldiers and two sappers lay badly wounded. A combined Australian, American and Afghan patrol was under ambush from up to 150 enemy fighters when the two attack choppers arrived at a nearby American base. As the troops were pounded by enemy mortar, small arms and rocket-propelled grenades near the village of Khaz Oruzgan, they thought salvation had arrived in the form of the Apache helicopters. The patrol's air strike co-ordinator told the Dutch pilots by radio: "We're in an absolute doozy of a s--- fight. We need your assistance as we're taking casualties." But the pilots refused to drop under their "safe" height of 5000m, despite the fact Apaches are armour-plated and designed to operate under heavy fire at low altitude. In his book SAS Sniper, to be released next week, former SAS soldier and ex-Royal Marine Rob Maylor reveals intricate details of the ambush and the lack of help from the Dutch. "They wouldn't open up on the Taliban for fear they might draw some fire themselves," said Maylor, who suffered serious shrapnel wounds during the battle. "I honestly thought that we wouldn't get out of there alive. If the bad guys had got any closer it would have been all over for us." Another SAS soldier marked targets for the choppers using a machine gun to kick up dust clouds close to enemy positions. "They still wouldn't engage. SG (the air strike co-ordinator) had had enough so he told them, 'If you're not going to engage then you might as well f--- off', and they did. Cheers boys." The book adds weight to the view of soldiers on the front line that they need more firepower - including one whose email appeal for better back-up was revealed by the Herald Sun. One of the specific complaints in the email concerned a lack of helicopter support during another deadly battle that claimed Private Jared Mackinney. Australia asked the departing Dutch to keep five Apaches in Tarin Kowt until mid-November because Australia's Tiger attack choppers wouldn't be ready until mid-2011. Maylor, who retired in January, said yesterday he was surprised the Dutch Apaches refused to fight. "They do have very tight rules of engagement, but we needed all the help we could get," he said. Trooper Mark Donaldson won the Victoria Cross for Gallantry during the ambush when he rescued a wounded interpreter from the battlefield. --------------------------------------------------------------------- As I and others have said previously (in numerous posts) we need indigenous fire support to support our troops in Afghanistan.
 
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gf0012-aust       10/22/2010 8:57:26 AM

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As I and others have said previously (in numerous posts) we need indigenous fire support to support our troops in Afghanistan.

its a bit hard to deploy when they aren't certified.

the uniforms also well know that they can't deploy.

the Tigers are another great success story (NOT).  other assets were identified as superior but the bottom line was cost.


 
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Volkodav       10/22/2010 5:39:12 PM




 


the uniforms also well know that they can't deploy.


the Tigers are another great success story (NOT).  other assets were identified as superior but the bottom line was cost.







What is the issue with the Tigers preventing their deployment?
Can it be solved or should we be looking at an interim measure?
Should we be looking at on selling them and buying a new solution?
 
Could fast tracking the AT-6, or similar, to 4 Sqn be an option?
 
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Volkodav       10/22/2010 5:56:43 PM

AT-6C under test

USAF test pilots in Arizona are currently evaluating the Hawker Beechcraft AT-6C Texan II.

Gary Parsons - 15-Oct-2010

October 15: Test pilots in Arizona are currently evaluating the Hawker Beechcraft AT-6C Texan II in the light attack role in the US Air Force?s search for an affordable combat aircraft.

Two Texans are being evaluated over the Barry M. Goldwater Range by the Air National Guard, Air Force Reserve Command Test Center (AATC) based at nearby Tucson International Airport. "Right now we are paying a high cost to fly an F-16 in terms of fuel and wear and tear for missions that don't require the full capabilities of the airplane," said Lt Colonel Keith Colmer, who leads AATC's light attack programme. "With fourth generation fighters nearing the end of their service life, a light attack platform could take on these kinds of missions and lighten the load.?

"We took existing technology from the A-10 and F-16 and inserted it in the AT-6," he said. The attack equipment comprises mission computers, situational awareness data links, radios, helmet-mounted cueing systems, hands-on stick and throttles, threat countermeasures and armament pylons under the wings. ?Pilots are coming back after flying it excited about light attack,? continued Colmer. ?They're enjoying the sorties and the aircraft's capabilities. Almost everyone has a list of things they would like to change, but that's what we expected. Now we'll take their input and make it a better aircraft."

The AATC believes that the AT-6 could be operated for just $600 per hour instead of $15,000 to $17,000 for an A-10 or F-16. It says that the AT-6 is not intended to replace jets, but could undertake a number of roles otherwise done with the larger aircraft.

 
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gf0012-aust       10/25/2010 5:40:03 PM


What is the issue with the Tigers preventing their deployment?

Can it be solved or should we be looking at an interim measure?

Should we be looking at on selling them and buying a new solution?

Could fast tracking the AT-6, or similar, to 4 Sqn be an option?

offline chat for that one

 
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gf0012-aust       10/25/2010 5:42:14 PM

AT-6C under test


USAF test pilots in Arizona are currently evaluating the Hawker Beechcraft AT-6C Texan II.


instead of wasting money on their own tests, they could have a look at what the USN have done with the Super Tucano trials - and look at the data on the 60+ CAS light props currently in service with various US Govt agencies.  They've got combat data as well.


 
 
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