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Subject: Sealift Ship
Aussiegunneragain    10/2/2010 9:29:51 PM
Anybody got any news on where the proposed sealift ship project for the RAN is at? (relevant section from White Paper highlighted below). "9.24 The Government has decided to enhance this amphibious capability by acquiring a large strategic sealift ship to move stores, equipment and personnel. Based on a proven design, the new ship will have a displacement of 10,000 - 15,000 tonnes, with landing spots for a number of helicopters and an ability to land vehicles and other cargo without requiring port infrastructure. The new ship will provide ongoing sustainment support for deployed forces, allowing the LHD ships to remain in areas of operations in direct support of the land force ashore." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_warfare_ships_of_Australia
 
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aussienscale       11/6/2010 7:22:50 AM

Nothing firm as yet but seems to be heading towards something along the lines of the Galicia/Rotterdam class or the larger Bay class, which is just a larger version of the Galicia. These ships are within the guidelines in the White Paper.

After that you are looking at ships that are much larger than the scope of the White paper, such as the US LPD 17

 
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Volkodav       11/6/2010 9:16:44 PM
Would not touch an LPD 17 with a barge pole.
 
I am curious though, the LHDs were intended to replace one of the LPAs and HMAS TOBRUK with the proposed sealift ship replacing the remaining LPA at a latter date, is this still the case?  The latest I have heard is the LHDs will replace the LPAs (due to their poor material condition) at the earliest opportunity with no news on the fate of Tobruk.  Will Tobuk be retained for longer than intended or will we have a capability gap pending the delivery of the sealift ship?
 
Looking at the overall project costs of the LPAs I can't help but wonder if we would have been better off buying / building a training / helicopter support ship, as originally planned, instead.  Something along the line of HMS Ocean would have been perfect.
 
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aussienscale       11/7/2010 2:19:06 AM
As I understand it Tobruk will still go, it would not be financially viable to keep her, besides the increase in capability when the first of the LHD's come on line will overnight do away with her anyway.
 
Although open to interpretation, the White paper calls for a 10-15k Ship, well under the Ocean, I would also take into account that it says the new ship will provide sustainment support, although an Ocean would be nice, it would certainly not be considered a support ship for the LHD's
 
9.24 The Government has decided to enhance this amphibious capability by acquiring a large strategic sealift ship to move stores, equipment and personnel. Based on a proven design, the new ship will have a displacement of 10,000 - 15,000 tonnes, with landing spots for a number of helicopters and an ability to land vehicles and other cargo without requiring port infrastructure. The new ship will provide ongoing sustainment support for deployed forces, allowing the LHD ships to remain in areas of operations in direct support of the land force ashore.
 
 
 
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Volkodav       11/7/2010 4:03:35 AM
I wasn't clear on what I meant about Ocean, what I was thinking was that it was too bad we bought and converted KANIMBLA and MANOORA instead of buying or building a ship similar to HMS OCEAN during the mid 1990's. 
 
The original plan had been for a training and helicopter support ship to replace the converted ferry HMAS JERVIS BAY but was canned on cost grounds and the ex USN NEWPORT class LSTs were bought and converted instead. 
 
An OCEAN type ship (LPH) would have been extremely useful for Timor and considering the unexpected costs of ownership for the LPAs may well have worked out cheaper.  We could mow be looking to buy one LHD to supplement our LPH instead of having to urgently acquire two.
 
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aussienscale       11/7/2010 5:07:10 PM
Ah, got you now, yes hindsight is a wonderful thing, I served on the old cruise liner (JB). Thats the way we tend to do things in ADF aquisitions unfortunately. Certainly would have been much cheaper in the long run, rather than buy what is specifically needed we get a square peg and try to make it round :(
 
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Shawnc       11/8/2010 1:44:42 PM
I'm just wondering if the RAN would be open to purchasing something along the lines of a stretched Singapore Endurance Class LPD?
 
They're about 8,500 tons loaded, use SmartShip systems to reduce crew size to 65, accommodate 350 troops, have both a well deck and bow ramp and have operated with Chinooks - and were the first ships in the world to operationally deploy Protector USVs.
 
Plus, the Royal Thai Navy placed an order for one in 2008 for about USD$150 million, complete with ship systems and 4 landing craft - so you could basically get 4 for the amount already spent on the LCS Independence...
 
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Aussiegunneragain       11/8/2010 7:41:42 PM

I'm just wondering if the RAN would be open to purchasing something along the lines of a stretched Singapore Endurance Class LPD?

 They're about 8,500 tons loaded, use SmartShip systems to reduce crew size to 65, accommodate 350 troops, have both a well deck and bow ramp and have operated with Chinooks - and were the first ships in the world to operationally deploy Protector USVs.

Plus, the Royal Thai Navy placed an order for one in 2008 for about USD$150 million, complete with ship systems and 4 landing craft - so you could basically get 4 for the amount already spent on the LCS Independence...


They are smaller than the white paper is after, but I can see the benefits of having two ships rather than one. They would probably be a common sense off the shelf buy, which is why Defence is unlikely to want them ... ;-).
 
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Volkodav       11/9/2010 4:06:10 AM
I would like to see an Endurance like small LPD enter service with the RAN but as a replacement for the Balikpapan class LCH rather than to fill the sea lift ship requirement.  Go smaller, simpler and cheaper but retain the docking well and helicopter facilities.
 
Some sort of joint support vessel, based on say the Damen Enforcer, incorporating a docking well, RAS, larger heli deck and hanger could be the way to go.  Buy three, fill the sealift requirement as well as to replace Success and Sirius.
 
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Aussiegunneragain       11/9/2010 7:33:25 AM

I would like to see an Endurance like small LPD enter service with the RAN but as a replacement for the Balikpapan class LCH rather than to fill the sea lift ship requirement.  Go smaller, simpler and cheaper but retain the docking well and helicopter facilities.

Some sort of joint support vessel, based on say the Damen Enforcer, incorporating a docking well, RAS, larger heli deck and hanger could be the way to go.  Buy three, fill the sealift requirement as well as to replace Success and Sirius.

See, we are already looking at ways to "Australianise" them! ;-)
What I personally like about the Endurance class is that they allow for a small, self contained deployment for smaller, low level contingencies where we don't need to send an LHD. They even have a deck gun for show of force/fire support if the troops ashore run into any trouble.  

 
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Aussiegunneragain       11/9/2010 10:38:41 PM
I wonder if the Endurance class could be successfully ice strengthened to fulfill a similar role to the RNZN MRV, HMNZS Canterbury?
 
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