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Subject: Fighter Squadron Locations
Aussiegunneragain    2/3/2010 6:54:11 AM
I was over in WA last year and saw the Hawk trainers operating around RAAF Pearce near Perth, as well as driving by RAAF Learmonth, the bare base near Exmouth which doubles as the local airport. It occurred to me that it seems a bit strange that the RAAF locates an introductory bascic and fast jet flight training facility so close to the bare bases where they would most likely have to deploy frontline fighters during a defence of Australia scenario, but operates three quarters of its frontline fighter fleet out of Williamstown in New South Wales. I know we aren't expecting an attack anytime soon, but it seems to me that it would be smarter to swap the two facilities around to improve the speed of deployment?The big issue that springs to mind is that fighter deployment from Williamstown to Curtain or Learmonth would ikely involves at least one stop or alternatively support from the RAAF tankers, which might be required on operational missions at the time that the fighters are being deployed.
 
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DropBear       2/3/2010 10:19:31 AM
Tindal was designed from the outset to house two sqns, but it has only ever been the home of 75SQN.
 
I can imagine for the bograts and their families when asked..."do you want to live near a major metropolitan area or the middle of nowhere?"...that they would choose Willy in a heartbeat.
 
I've always thought the ACG should be split between Tindal and Amberley, which would allow Willy to be turned into the Badgery's Creek alternative for Sydney KSA.
 
Also makes for a long transit for Bugs not located at Tindal, to go play at Delamere.
 
Our tax dollars at work! http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emsmiled.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
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Volkodav       2/4/2010 4:09:53 AM
An issue with moving a squadron west is retention.  Moving the sub fleet west, away from the eastern population centres, is part of the cause of the currenr recruiting and retention issues.
 
The Army found the same recruiting and retention issues when they moved 1 Bde to Darwin and will probally see the same result when they move 3 RAR to Townsville.
 
Part of the reason 7 RAR is moving to Adelaide is to provide a Capital City posting for 1 Bde personnel to help retention.  If you move our forces too far from the homes and extended families of our service personnel you make life that much harded for their partners and children, especially during long deployments.
 
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Aussiegunneragain       2/4/2010 5:55:14 AM
Its a reasonable consideration about retention, though I note that Perth is a big city and is pretty nice as well. I'd rather live there than around Newcastle.
 
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Volkodav       2/4/2010 6:20:56 AM
True but Perth is also the hub of the mining industry as well as being a very very long way from everywhere else.
 
Most of our population is in NSW and Vic so it makes sence that most of our service personel come from those two states.  I wonder if we would have better success at recruiting, retention and community engagement if we concentrated the majority of forces in our major population centres where each unit and even formations could become a part of the community.
 
 
 
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hairy man       2/4/2010 5:49:21 PM
As posted above, most of our servicemen and women would have to come from NSW and Victoria, yet what Army, Navy and Air Force bases are there in Victoria?  The RAAF bases are strictly training, with no frontline aircraft stationed there.  Puckapunal has the Tankies, and Bandiana workshops, but little else in the State.
 
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oldemu       2/5/2010 3:24:33 AM

As posted above, most of our servicemen and women would have to come from NSW and Victoria, yet what Army, Navy and Air Force bases are there in Victoria?  The RAAF bases are strictly training, with no frontline aircraft stationed there.  Puckapunal has the Tankies, and Bandiana workshops, but little else in the State.

I think Qld would give Vic a run for its money in the number of ADF members, I know years ago when I was in, Qld out numbered Vic in all my training courses. Puckapunal has more than just Tankies, School of Artillery plus others. The Navy has its recuit training at Cerberus and the RAAF has the flying schools and is upgrading East Sale to take more units, Victoria has more than enough ADF assets and as a young recuit who whould want to be posted to Vic - and by the way I have lived in Vic for decades
 
Cheers
 
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hairy man       2/5/2010 10:47:15 PM
That is just my point.  They have a lot of the training in Victoria, but apart from the tanks and artillery, nothing is based here.  The Navy and RAAF have no equipment based in Victoria.  And I would not agree that Qld would provide more servicemen than Victoria.  More Victorians would be based in Qld than the other way around, I would agree with that.  Because there is nothing in Victoria for anyone to be based with, apart from training, particularly for the RAN and the RAAF. 
 
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Aussiegunneragain       2/6/2010 4:49:07 AM

That is just my point.  They have a lot of the training in Victoria, but apart from the tanks and artillery, nothing is based here.  The Navy and RAAF have no equipment based in Victoria.  And I would not agree that Qld would provide more servicemen than Victoria.  More Victorians would be based in Qld than the other way around, I would agree with that.  Because there is nothing in Victoria for anyone to be based with, apart from training, particularly for the RAN and the RAAF. 


Victorians don't mind migrating to Queensland irrespective of whether or not they are in the military. As such I doubt that basing combat units down there instead of in Queensland is going to do anything for retention. The units should be as close as they can be to where they are likely to fight without compromising recruitment and retention, and Queensland is fine in that regard.
 
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Yak    Training Areas   2/6/2010 9:44:49 AM
Pucka does not simulate any of our threat areas. Nor does Cultana in winter. These are large expanses of land that no one else wants. basing of air/land/sea assets has historically been capital based. The move of 1 BDE to to Darwin was the first major shift since Vietnam. Basing of assets to remote sites leads to (equally rapid) retention issues.
 
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Volkodav       2/6/2010 10:33:27 PM
Base your units and formations where the recruiting pool is and locate your training facilities, along with the required equipment, adjacent to the most geographically suitable areas, then fly the troops in and out.
 
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