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Subject: White paper orders huge military build-up!!!!!!!!!
Volkodav    4/25/2009 3:36:57 AM
Ummm wow! How accurate is this? Patrick Walters, National security editor | April 25, 2009 Article from: The Australian KEVIN Rudd is set to announce Australia's biggest military build-up since World War II, led by a multi-billion-dollar investment in maritime defence, including 100 new F-35 fighters, a doubling of the submarine fleet, and powerful new surface warships. Play 12345Loading…Please login to rate a video.You can't rate an advertisement.(1 vote) Biggest military boost since WWII Kevin Rudd is set to roll out the biggest military build-up since World War II. 04/09 Sky News Views today: 396Sorry, this video is no longer available.The new defence white paper will outline plans for a fundamental shake-up of Australia's defence organisation to ensure that the nation can meet what the Prime Minister sees as a far more challenging and uncertain security outlook in Asia over the next two decades. China's steadily growing military might and the prospect of sharper strategic competition among Asia's great powers are driving the maritime build-up, which will see new-generation submarines and warships equipped with cruise missiles, and a big new investment in anti-submarine warfare and electronic warfare platforms, including new naval helicopters. The white paper will consider the emerging non-traditional threats to Australia, including cyber security, climate change and its associated risk of large uncontrolled people movements. Senior government sources say Mr Rudd has insisted that defence spending remain largely insulated from the Government's budget difficulties, but the Defence Department will still have to find at least $15 billion of internal savings over the next decade to help pay for the $100 billion-plus long-term equipment plan. Mr Rudd said yesterday the delivery of the white paper was proving "acutely challenging as we work to defend ourselves from the global economic storm". "It is the most difficult environment to frame the Australian budget in modern economic history. It is also the most difficult environment to frame our long-term defence planning in modern economic history as well," he told the Australia-Israel Chamber of Commerce. "Nevertheless the Government will not resile even in the difficult times from the requirement for long-term coherence of our defence planning for the long-term security of our nation. This is core business for government. That is why we have forged ahead in our preparation of the defence white paper because national security needs do not disappear because of the global recession. If anything, those needs become more acute." Funding pressures will mean the navy will not get a fourth air warfare destroyer, and the delivery of the first batch of the RAAF's F-35 joint strike fighters will slip by at least one year to 2014-15. The huge cost of paying for the next-generation defence force, due to be detailed in the white paper and the forthcoming 10-year defence capability plan, will have little impact on the defence budget over the the next four years. Apart from the air warfare destroyers and the F-35 fighters, most of the planned defence purchases will not have to be paid for until well into the next decade and beyond. Mr Rudd and Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon are expected to release the long-awaited white paper as early as next week, with the more detailed 10-year defence capability plan due to be published by mid-year. The naval build-up will be led by a planned 12-strong submarine fleet expected to replace the Collins-class boats from 2025. It will enable the RAN to deploy up to seven boats to protect Australia's northern approaches, including key maritime straits running through the Indonesian archipelago, at times of high threat. The white paper will outline the requirement for a new class of eight 7000-tonne warships equipped with ballistic missile defence systems similar to the three air warfare destroyers already on order that will eventually replace the Anzac frigates. A new class of 1500-tonne corvette-size patrol boats able to take a helicopter is slated to replace the Armidale-class vessels from the mid-2020s. The more robust maritime force will also mean the RAAF's veteran AP-3 Orion fleet being replaced with a mix of at least eight P-8 Poseidon long-range surveillance aircraft, together with up to seven unmanned aerial surveillance vehicles, possibly the US-made Global Hawk, operating out of an expanded Edinburgh air base in South Australia. The navy is also expected to acquire up to 27 anti-submarine helicopters. Mr Rudd has foreshadowed the maritime build-up as pointing to the need for Australia to accommodate "huge increases in military spending here in our own region". "If we are going to defend our sea-lines of communication to the rest of the world, we have got to make sure that we have got the naval capability to underpin that. And Australia must therefore
 
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Volkodav       5/4/2009 7:06:23 AM
I wonder if the MRV could be fitted with 9VL, CEAFAR, CEAMOUNT and ESSM?
 
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DropBear       5/4/2009 9:25:54 AM
I wonder if the MRV could be fitted with 9VL, CEAFAR, CEAMOUNT and ESSM?
 
Dead set???
 
You want to put ESSM on a patrol vessel??? I don't think they are designed for a 21st century Sino-Jutlandesque type engagement.
 
Didn't think Bluefin tuna theft and illegal immigrants had escalated to that level yet.  http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emsmileo.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
 
 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       5/4/2009 10:19:42 AM

I wonder if the MRV could be fitted with 9VL, CEAFAR, CEAMOUNT and ESSM?
 

Dead set???

 

You want to put ESSM on a patrol vessel??? I don't think they are designed for a 21st century Sino-Jutlandesque type engagement.

 

Didn't think Bluefin tuna theft and illegal immigrants had escalated to that level yet.  http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emsmileo.gif" alt="" align="absmiddle" border="0" />

They are intended for "littoral warfare" according to the WP...
 
What this translates to is anybody's guess, but  in my opinion, that would at least translate to:
 
1. A medium calibre gun system (hopefully 57mm to 76mm).
 
2. A missile based self defence system (RAM / SEA-RAM)
 
3. A moderate land attack capability (57/76mm gun and NLOS/LS type missile capability).
 
4. Modular mission systems for ASW, mine warfare, special forces delivery and recovery etc.
 
I'll wait a bit to see if anything like this pans out though....
 
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DropBear       5/4/2009 10:26:36 AM
So essentially they are a new role envisaged platform and not intended to replace the Armidales at all?
 
I thought they were merely to be scaled up Armidale replacements with helo capacity, not another larger combat capability.
 
I learn something new everyday. http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emsmiled.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
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gf0012-aust       5/4/2009 5:14:20 PM


Didn't think Bluefin tuna theft and illegal immigrants had escalated to that level yet.  http://www.strategypage.com/Images/emsmileo.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />

 Seen how much one bluefin is worth?  noticed that the worlds bluefin natural stocks are down.  note that australia now leads the world in blue fin sea farming developments _ and is the only one to successfully do this after hagan steyrs(??) spent some 5 years in development.

the potential for a southern hemisphere "cod war"  is very real.

 

 



 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       5/4/2009 8:12:29 PM

So essentially they are a new role envisaged platform and not intended to replace the Armidales at all?

 

I thought they were merely to be scaled up Armidale replacements with helo capacity, not another larger combat capability.

 

I learn something new everyday. http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emsmiled.gif" alt="" align="absmiddle" border="0" />


They are intended to replace the Armidales and the Huons and the Oceanography survey vessels.
 
 
They will also most likely include helo/UAV operating capability and therefore will be a significant advance on the Armidales. The WP says they are also to be equipped to engage in surface and littoral warfighting duties, hence the equipment fit I mentioned above.
 
When you put it all together it sounds very much like Navy wants LCS or similar and Customs can handle the in-shore stuff....
 
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Cyrus       5/7/2009 9:11:45 AM
If they are to be 2000 ton then the MRV's are to small the largest being the MRV 90 at 1250t  in fact the only one in the austral line up that could  do all they want it to do without starting from scratch is the 1980t LCS 127.
 
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hairy man       5/7/2009 9:11:50 PM
1980 tonne, 2000 tonne, sounds pretty close to me.
 
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hairy man       5/7/2009 9:14:02 PM

1980 tonne, 2000 tonne, sounds pretty close to me.


Although surely they will be able come up with a purpose designed ship now they know what is required!
 
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BLUIE006       5/8/2009 5:38:26 AM
IMHO the Ideal Solution Would be a Combo of the MRV & LCS. (6+14)

The Navy currently operates four relatively small fleets of vessels for important tasks such as offshore resource protection, border security, hydrographic and oceanographic environmental assessments
and clearing sea mines. This significantly increases whole-of-life ownership costs and personnel overheads. Smaller vessels also have less seagoing capacity and a reduced scope for installing more capable sensor or weapons systems over time.
The Government has therefore decided that Defence will develop proposals to rationalise the Navy's patrol boat, mine counter measures, hydrographic and oceanographic forces into a single modular multirole class of around 20 Offshore Combatant Vessels combining four existing classes of vessels. This has the potential to provide significant operational efficiencies and potential savings. The new vessels will be larger than the current Armidale class patrol boats, with an anticipated displacement of up to 2,000 tonnes.
 
 The future Offshore Combatant Vessel will be able to undertake offshore and littoral warfighting roles, border protection tasks, long-range counter-terrorism and counter-piracy operations, support to special forces, and missions in support of security and stability in the immediate neighbourhood. Defence will examine the potential for these new ships to embark a helicopter or UAV, to allow a surge in surveillance and response capabilities without the need to deploy additional ships. This increased capability will also ensure that major surface combatants are free for more demanding operations. http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emteeth.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
Sounds alot like the LCS? Which would be great news! http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emsmilep.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" /> 
However one wonders if sending a LCS to intecept a boat load of  illegal's; might be a bit of an overkill?  
 
Perhaps the NZ theory might be worth a look  Inshore & Offshore?
 
OPV = LCS (14)
IPV = MRV (6-8)
 
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