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Subject: WTF - $43 billion bucks spent to improve porn download rates?!?!
Aussiegunneragain    4/7/2009 3:26:13 AM
So now that we are heading towards a recession with the prospect of a $100 billion dollar deficit over the next 4 years, our Dear Leader has decided to quadtriple the size of the National Broadband Network project to $43 billion bucks. Originally the project was "only" going to cost $9b, with $4.5b coming from the Government, but now the $4.5b will just be an initial payment. How much is the taxpayer going to end up paying for this monsterous white elephant of a project, $20b plus? WTF are people going to use all that bandwidth for anyway ... surely if the demand was really there then business would build it of its own accord? I don't know about you lot but don't want my taxes being flushed down the toilet by a Government making the old mistake of trying to pick winners. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Broadband price rise tipped under $43b plan Posted 2 hours 50 minutes ago Updated 2 hours 17 minutes ago Massive project: analysts are astonished at the upfront cost. (Reuters: Hannibal Hanschke, file photo) Video: PM announces broadband scheme (ABC News) Audio: Market rocked by Government announcement (The World Today) Audio: Press conference: Kevin Rudd unveils broadband plan (ABC News) Audio: Opposition slams Government plan (The World Today) Audio: Federal Government ditches broadband policy (The World Today) Audio: Tanner takes critics to task (The World Today) Audio: Dr Bill Glasson on the Government's national broadband network plan (ABC News) Related Story: Broadband plan 'a massive broken promise' Related Story: Rudd redraws broadband landscape Related Story: Tas gets first 'byte' at new broadband Related Story: Broadband network 'must accommodate rural needs' Related Story: Telstra defies downward market trend Related Story: Phone lines restored in NT Related Story: Disappointment over national broadband plan Related Link: Factbox: Key points about national broadband network Market analysts say broadband prices are likely to rise, after the Government unveiled an amibitious new $43 billion plan to build a national fibre-to-the-home broadband network. Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has scrapped the broadband tender process in favour of forming a public/private company to build and operate a network which will cost over four times the amount of the original $9.4b proposal. Mr Rudd says the network will take eight years to build and give 90 per cent of Australian households download speeds 100 times faster than they currently experience. The 10 per cent of homes not covered by fibre-to-the-home will get upgraded wireless access. But analysts are astonished at the upfront cost and say they have concerns about the network's commercial viability. "I've got no idea what's driving the Government to do this," Ivor Ries, an analyst with EL and C Baillieu Stockbroking, says. "They're saying a network that will deliver 100 megabits per second, that would exceed current household consumption by a factor of 100 times. "[That] allows you to download several channels of television at the same time. "[So] what it will do is create a market for people selling downloads to homes - people selling movies for downloads to homes will obviously be big winners from this. "But is it going to provide some sort of magic shot in the arm to productivity? Probably not." Mr Ries says the new network is only financially viable if 80 per cent of Australians choose the access provided by the new cables rather than wireless internet access. "If they get only 60 per cent of the population using it, and people preferring wireless over this new cable, then the monthly access fee they're going to have to charge people will be prohibitive," he warned. "At the moment the average Australian household is spending about $40 a month on accessing the internet. "Whereas this proposal will require the average household to be paying somewhere round about $75-85 a month. "So you're talking there about a $35 to $45 a month increase in the cost of basic access for the average household." BBY Stockbroking senior analyst Mark McDonnell says it is hard to see how the private sector could make a return on such an expensive project, unless broadband prices rise significantly. "It's both audacious and paradoxical," he said. "The paradox being that if you can't find private sector support for a proposition around building a fibre-to-the-node network which might have cost $10 to $15 billion, let's up the ante and make it $43 billion and still ask for private sector support. "How's that going to happen?" But telecommunications analyst Paul Budde says Australians are getting top-level technology without waiting for a commercial company to provide it, even if home use will only be part of the new network. "You have to look at it in a totally different situation," he said. "You talk about the use of the infrastructure; not just for internet. You talk ab
 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       4/16/2009 8:42:33 AM

You need to spend all your money on saving the enviroment. Internet is great, but you could achieve the same effect by banning porn with hefty, hefty fines and physical punishment for being found wasting too much bandwith on it. Ration your lust...

 

Oh wait, you're a democracy - that would never pass.


As for porn, what is a "hefty fine" going to achieve?
 
Paedophiles go to jail for accessing kiddy porn on the Internet and yet there are so many kiddy porn sites on the net and so much imagery, video, games etc available through peer to peer that it is literally sickening.
 
Wake up and smell a bit of reality brother. You won't be able to fine or close down the ISP's hosting these sites, because they are run from Countries that don't exactly care about Democracy, nor our attitudes to such issues and fining individual users for accessing these sites, or attempting to block them does NOT work.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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CDT3    We don't need $43 billion spent on broadband   5/20/2009 11:46:24 PM
Aussie Digger,
 Now you're getting the picture. Seems we're on the same page on this issue. To all the other's who had a go at Digger for his post...it's not just about download speeds and how fast Jim Wanker can view his porn, it's about the need to spend this kind of loot at this point in global financial insecurity. As this is a defence forum, let's stick to the subject ok!
 Previous posts have discussed at length the Defence White Paper and what it means. More to the point, what it lacks and what choices have been made. Myself and others have made a point that Australia desperately needs a Carrier (2 would be better), and a lot of folks say, yes that would be nice but how can we afford it?
 $43 billion would buy us three carriers actually, of say around the 35-40,000 tonne class; though you wouldn't have much change for aircraft and crewing. But it would buy us at least one decent carrier (CTOL) and planes, pay for crewing and training and set us well on our way to properly defending ourself. Below is my previous post from another discussion page (AWD's).
CDT3    Aussie Defence upgrades, affordability   5/17/2009 10:20:50 PM
Aussie Digger. You make some valid arguments to my proposals, but I will be blunt, but not brief.
1. In defending our nation, there is no second best. As my statement maintained, Australia's defence capabilities have been neglected for over thirty years and now more than ever is the time to make sure we can afford what we need, so that for the most part we do not have to rely over-much on support or backup from our American allies. Currently the way things are shaping up in the world, that aid might not be so forthcoming in the future.
2. To afford the proposals I put forward, several Rudd Government initiatives have to be scrapped, if not to make defence a priority in the near future, but also because those policies are absurd. A./ $40 billion broadband??, we don't need that one for sure. What so perverts can download porn faster, or little Kylie can research for her HSC two minutes quicker? B./ $5000 baby bonus? Crickey you've got to be kidding. If you plan on having kids, plan on affording them yourself, not waiting for government handouts that other taxpayers are funding, same goes for paid maternity/ paternity leave. People will have kids whether you pay em' to or not. There are quite a few other things here as well, but I think I've already paid for my proposal in this paragraph.
3. Glad you agreed with me on AWD numbers, it seems everybody else is as well. But I won't go into the technical aspects of these, that is pretty well covered by others.
4. The number of twelve subs was proposed quite some years ago, even as the Collins class was being built, so that it would be possible to maintain both a East and West coast sub fleet, with four apiece in service at any one time, and two vessels in dock for whatever reason at the time (ie maintenance, upgrades etc, etc). It is still relevant today.
5. Recruitment and Retention. This has been and will always remain an issue for Defence in Australia. Why, because fundamentally we're not really a very patriotic nation. Sure we'll turn out in droves to give support to our sporting teams in the international arena, but ask a young person what they think about a career in the Forces and they'll either give you a dumb look because they no idea what you're talking about, or tell you off in some obscene manner, or lastly, tell you they'd rather get a career in Finance (oh jeezes I'm gonna fall asleep). As far as retaining the people we do manage to lasso in, give them a better deal. In my time in the RAN, you did your two years sea draft, then a year ashore, I don't think the sailors of today are getting that, and apart from decent pay levels, this has got to affect morale greatly. As an aside to this issue, in the 60's and 70's in the U.S., if you served for a minimum of four years, the government would pay for your higher education (ie college degree) providing you agreed to re-enlist for a further six years. I don't know if the seppo's still do that, but it would be worth exploring in Oz.
6. The Marines. I only suggested 5-8,000 because of realistic scenario's covered by several Staff College papers on future threats to Australia. Of course that number would
 
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gf0012-aust       5/21/2009 5:14:52 PM
It cracks me up when I see all the fluff on being a smart country.

If we want to look at a wired up nation that has taken a national security and tactical security approach then look no further than South Korea.  Its the most fibre optic wired industrialised country on the planet.

militarily the americans already have the forward lan for 25gbit data transfer links - there is no way that we are going to be able to keep up and maintain interoperability on and off the battlfield with our current comms - and we can't afford to have generational lag if our intent is to stay in the game.

we're already behind all of our partners in the comms bandwidth arena.

it's not just a military strategic necessity - its an economic strategic necessity.

as a rough analogy, it's a bit like extolling the virtues of flurescent light bulbs over incandescent when everyone else is moving to SMT LEDs .

to be able to qualitatively separate redundant information from location critical information, you still need to be able to receive it before filtering.  We're nowhere near where the US was in GW1 at an information harvesing and sifting level and yet we still try and do it over archaic copper links.

it's an econmic and military issue thats been flagged for years.  we're not going to hit any of our partners 2014-2016 timelines at this rate - so even this proposal is worth pursuing to even get us partially there. 
 
 
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CDT3       5/21/2009 7:29:07 PM
gf0012-aust       5/21/2009 5:14:52 PM
It cracks me up when I see all the fluff on being a smart country.

If we want to look at a wired up nation that has taken a national security and tactical security approach then look no further than South Korea.  Its the most fibre optic wired industrialised country on the planet.

militarily the americans already have the forward lan for 25gbit data transfer links - there is no way that we are going to be able to keep up and maintain interoperability on and off the battlfield with our current comms - and we can't afford to have generational lag if our intent is to stay in the game.

we're already behind all of our partners in the comms bandwidth arena.

it's not just a military strategic necessity - its an economic strategic necessity.

as a rough analogy, it's a bit like extolling the virtues of flurescent light bulbs over incandescent when everyone else is moving to SMT LEDs .

to be able to qualitatively separate redundant information from location critical information, you still need to be able to receive it before filtering.  We're nowhere near where the US was in GW1 at an information harvesing and sifting level and yet we still try and do it over archaic copper links.

it's an econmic and military issue thats been flagged for years.  we're not going to hit any of our partners 2014-2016 timelines at this rate - so even this proposal is worth pursuing to even get us partially there. 
 
Yeah ok I can agree that as far as military comm links go, a national fibre optic broadband is the way to go...but having said that, it's way too much for this country to spend. We need those sort of funds for materiel acqisition. Probably at this stage, Kev should just give the ADF the technology, the rest of us don't really need it. A point, I use 3 mobile wireless broadband and I'm amazed at just how fast it is. No the funding is needed for our forces, end of argument.
CDT 3.http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emkulou.gif" alt="" />
 
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Volkodav       5/22/2009 6:05:38 AM
Yeah ok I can agree that as far as military comm links go, a national fibre optic broadband is the way to go...but having said that, it's way too much for this country to spend. We need those sort of funds for materiel acqisition. Probably at this stage, Kev should just give the ADF the technology, the rest of us don't really need it. A point, I use 3 mobile wireless broadband and I'm amazed at just how fast it is. No the funding is needed for our forces, end of argument.
 
That would be interesting having my secure terminal working at 100 times faster than my corporate one...I wonder if it would give me epilepsy? Seriously though having high speed internet would speed up a lot of what we do and would actually make secure teleconferencing doable. The amount of money it would save being able to conduct design reviews etc. over the net instead of having to fly all the stake holders to one location would be significant to say the least.

Oh by the way our only customer is the ADF so every cent we save is money in their pocket.
 
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gf0012-aust       5/23/2009 1:03:31 AM
The amount of money it would save being able to conduct design reviews etc. over the net instead of having to fly all the stake holders to one location would be significant to say the least.

Oh by the way our only customer is the ADF so every cent we save is money in their pocket. 
well, we've been directed to teleconference rather than fly, so no more trips to perth or potts point for me.. :)

 
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Aussie Diggermark 2    CDT3   5/23/2009 8:08:47 AM
"So the only way I see it, to replace our beloved Pig's is to either build brand new ones, or buy a Carrier, so that our air combat assets can be in theatre, without having to worry too much about long range tankering. (See war scenario's above)."
 
I had a REALLY long reply to this, typed out, but I've decided not to bother. You might as well wish for ADF to build a Death Star.
 
The F-111's are gone and will be replaced by Super Hornets. Super Hornets will be replaced by F-35 after 2020. We won't be getting a carrier and we will be lucky if we even ever get an enhanced tanking capability.
 
End of story.
 
Next!
 
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Volkodav       5/23/2009 8:18:04 AM
well, we've been directed to teleconference rather than fly, so no more trips to perth or potts point for me.. :)
 
I still get to go to WA but then again you cant do everything by teleconference. The thing is though meetings and reviews can actually be more efficiently conducted in this manner not just because of the savings in airfares but the reductions of hours (often days) lost in travelling interstate for meetings.
 
The faster the connection the more you can do in a given time and the more uses you will find to use the connection for.
 
 
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AMTP10F       5/23/2009 9:15:52 PM

The amount of money it would save being able to conduct design reviews etc. over the net instead of having to fly all the stake holders to one location would be significant to say the least.

Oh by the way our only customer is the ADF so every cent we save is money in their pocket. 

well, we've been directed to teleconference rather than fly, so no more trips to perth or potts point for me.. :)

That's if you can find an available secure teleconferencing facility in Russell. Then there is the problem of secure teleconferencing facilities for all the other participants. Then, even if everyone does have it, then the reliability of the facilities is bloody awful. If I had a dollar for every time we've had meetings interrupted or called off due to equipment failure I'd be a rich man.
 
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Volkodav       5/24/2009 4:18:53 AM
That's if you can find an available secure teleconferencing facility in Russell. Then there is the problem of secure teleconferencing facilities for all the other participants. Then, even if everyone does have it, then the reliability of the facilities is bloody awful. If I had a dollar for every time we've had meetings interrupted or called off due to equipment failure I'd be a rich man.
Exactly why FTTH is the right way to go. While wireless, ADSL and even dial up may suit many private individuals government and buisiness needs the greater speed and volume. FTTH isn't just about letting teenagers download music videos faster it is the benefits it will provide to business, government and education that will be the real pay off.
 
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