Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Australia Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Australian Experdinonary Frigate
THEPUSSMK2    11/21/2008 5:02:58 AM
Ok I have been mulling over the idea of replacing the FFG's with a class of four experdinonary frigates. By this I mean a warship with capability of a frigate with the ability to carry a company (around 150 troops). This ship would be similar in inspiration to the Absalon Class, However the embarked troops would not be accommodated in containers on the mission deck as this would eliminate your ability to carry vehicles and bulk stores, so I have added an extra 1200 tons which is probably overly generous. The proposed ship would displace around 7500 tons have a crew of an ANZAC (160) Flight of 20 (Two Helos) and 150 Troops. It would have a well deck capabile of taking one LCM and two rading craft whist the ship would have two standard RAN RIBS for normal ship operations on upperdeck davits. Armerments would consit of a MK 45 MOD 4 5" Gun, 2 to 4 VLS modules,2 MK 141 Harpoon launchers, 4 quad Nulka launchers , internal SVTT's (anti sub torps) 1 MK 1B phalnax (1b gives a point and shot option) Typhoon and Mini Typhoon to round of the close in protection. The ships would be equiped with CEAFAR radars (the Australian develpoped Search and Illumination radars that are being installed in the ANZAC upgragde) couple with the latest SAAB combat system. So the grand idea is to have four of these ships.One in refit, one on work ups/having a break, one doing normal navy type stuff and one patroling arounf the pacific with a company of light infanty from the Townsville infantry battions embarked ready to responed to any natural desaster or civil unrest in the Pacific region. This one company would not be enough to quell a islands civvile unrest, However it should be able to evacuate forigen nationals whislt the "Fat Ships" troop up and do the job properly. 1 of the 2 Helos embarked would be and army/navy NH 90 which should be able to carry enough troops to secure the embassy whislt the two army rading craft should be enough troops to secure the landing point, Which would be closly folowed by the LCM with a couple of Bushmasters loaded to carry troops to the embassy, whilst further loads of Bushys would be able to pick up civilians / deliver more troops. There is a an old adage that "Steel is cheep and air is cheeper". I think a ready response "experdinonary" frigate would be very valuble in the future with the world going the way it is.
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: 1 2
BLUIE006       12/6/2008 8:50:19 AM
Perhaps the German Type F125 is worth some consideration here?
 
Preliminary Specifications (Note that the final design may differ.)

More of a Frigate than support ship, the Phased Array Radar and 48 Cell Launcher give it a bit  more high end punch than the Absalon Class. However it has much less transport capability. Although may be enough for Pacific Island scenerio's? 
 The 48 Cell Launcher suggests it could preform Air Defence in the Absence of AWD. ( Credible scenario if the 3 (hopefully 4) Hobart's are tied up defending LHD or conducting BMD) 
 
With long maintenance periods: It is able to deploy  for up to two years away from home ports ideal for long term operations in the Gulf.
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

AMTP10F       12/7/2008 12:47:42 AM



Something I had thought of previously was replacing the LCH's and the proposed logistics ship with a class of small LPD's like Singapores Endurance Class or smaller to support the LHD's.


I think you'll find that the LCHs will go without replacement. There will be some large doctrine change when the LHDs come on line, and LCHs (or a derivative) dont really fit in.


Depends on who wins in the current fight over the new DCP. At the moment the LCH's are to be replaced but time will tell.
 
Quote    Reply

FlyingDutchman       12/7/2008 10:34:22 AM


Ah huh, that why I was suggesting a class of small LPD's.  The assumption is that we will be acquiring a class of LCU's to operate from the well deck of the LHD's.  It doesn't really make sense then to limit our options of deploying the LCU's by only having the 2 LHD's to deploy them, hence my idea of the small LPD's with a well deck capable of operating an LCU or two.


I am curious whether we will be acquiring a couple of BARV's to support the vehicles landed by the new amphibs, noting that the UK and Dutch are both using BARV's modified from surplus Leopard 1 tank hulls.  (hint hint)

 

http://www.panzerbaer.de/types/pix/NL_Fleetdays_05_LEOPARD_1_BARV_Samsoni.jpg" alt="" width="669" border="1" height="504" />

 

Also of interest to me is whether we will buy any specialised armoured vehicles to support troops deployed from the LHD's i.e. something akin to the BVS10 Viking that is light enough to be flown in by Chinook as well as landed over the beach.  Even a small number of of EFV's to equip an Amphibious Tractor Squadron or group.




You're correct; AFAIK the Dutch have two BARV's and a few CASE (to lay trackways and work as a forklift) along with their Vikings. But the Dutch army also uses Leopards, while the Australians use M1's, so maybe BARV's aren't that usefull (as they'll be more expensive in maintenance/parts if you don't operate around a 100 Leopards).
 
Isn't there the same on a M1 chassis around?

 
Quote    Reply

hairy man       12/7/2008 6:59:01 PM
Have we got rid of all of our Leopards yet?  If not, why cant we convert a few to these standards?
 
Quote    Reply

Volkodav       1/1/2009 7:26:33 AM
This would be an interesting load out option for an expeditionary frigate.
 http://www.arisspa.it/img_home/arisgator/cingolato.jpg" width="251" alt="" />
 
Quote    Reply

Lawman       1/1/2009 7:16:12 PM
Perhaps the best bet would be to simply build a few of either the Absalon, or its patrol frigate cousin. They could be equipped with the CEAFAR radar, and be designed to support the MCM vessels, and potentially the Armidales as needed. Weapons-wise, they would use a single 8-cell Mk41, possibly with space for more cells if needed, and some Harpoons. In effect, they would aim to be a sort of mother ship, supporting smaller vessels, whether they be mine countermeasures ships, patrol ships, or landing craft during amphibious ops. Some level of cargo space does make sense, if nothing else in order to provide a home for boarding parties etc... It might even make sense to buy some airborne mine clearance systems, to be fitted as needed to ASW helos. An Absalon type ship could easily accomodate a pair of NH90 or SH/MH-60s, and these could be used for supporting special ops missions.
 
As for the need, it is very much a matter of choice; such a ship could be very useful for some roles, but other ships might be able to perform the same tasks. If the ships were suitably cheap, then they might be a useful supplement for the AWDs, and ideally, be capable enough to replace some of the Anzacs. For example, we could see a move from three or so AWDs and eight Anzacs, to around six AWDs and six Absalon-type ships.
 
Quote    Reply

Volkodav       1/1/2009 7:59:25 PM
For example, we could see a move from three or so AWDs and eight Anzacs, to around six AWDs and six Absalon-type ships.
 
Very good idea.
 
The AWD's would be used for high threat missions while Absalon type is used for low/medium threat scenarios and humanitarian roles. 
 
Using a large frigate type hull as a multi role mother ship would allow some of our specialised platforms to be replaced by mission modules to be fitted to the mother ship as required.  Ditching the River Class MCM's in favour of several modular MCM systems including UUV's and possibly MCM fitted Helo's would provide us with more deployable and flexible MCM capability, possibly at lower cost. 
 
Other specialised mission modules could include ASW, Sea Control / anti Piracy, limited amphibious taskings and disaster relief / humanitarian.  The modules could be designed in such a way that they could also be deployed on the LHD's, the eventual replacements for Success and Sirius and the proposed logistics ship as required.  Looking outside the square, if we go for a class of flexible small LPD's to replace the LCH's they could also deploy the same mission modules as required, as too could ACPB replacement OPV's.
 
Quote    Reply
1 2



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics