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Subject: Does the RAN have a need for a Corvette?
hairy man    11/17/2008 6:31:29 PM
Does the RAN have a requirement for a Corvette type vessel? The one on the Austal website, which carries a helicopter and is equipped for ASW looks promising, although I would prefer it to be larger and better armed.
 
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Aussiegunneragain    SC   11/19/2008 8:09:56 AM


As for brown water frigate roles, what exactly are you referring to? and where in the world do you envisage them being conducted? I'd have concerns sending a corvette into a high threat environment, and I'd be skeptical as to whether they have the legs to do ops too far away from home, we have to travel alot further than any of our northern neighbours who have corvettes do.

I have major concerns that one way that a regional opponent with modern DE subs could tie up our major fleet assets by holding coastal shipping traffic and offshore rigs under threat. Somebody with a few Kilo's wouldn't even need to definately deploy them against us, they would just have to say that they were going to and we would have to deploy significant numbers of our skimmers to protect the coastal fleet or keep it in port at great expense to the economy. Given that we don't have many skimmers that  would interfere with our ability of the navy to say protect the amphibs in an operation to our north.
I see corvettes as a potentially cheaper (in terms of money and manpower) way to get a larger number of hulls for this type of operation. The caveat is that they would have to be armed to deal with a modern submarine threat. That not only means effective ASW weapons but also anti-ship missile defences capable of providing a limited area defence role. A SPY-1K equipped corvette with Sea Sparrows and a rotary UAV or ASW missile system would probably be feasable and do the trick in this regard.
 
I also see corvettes being useful in the littoral role on offensive ops that the US is envisaging using its LCS, to deal with FAC and DE subs. A corvette will easily have the legs to do that in our near region from Australian ports.
 
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Aussiegunneragain    My ideal Aussie Corvette   11/19/2008 9:14:54 AM
-+-1500tonnes
-Twin Hulls for 35+ knot dash speed and shallow water operations
-Hydrodynamic variable depth sonar array that can be lowered between the hulls
-Low RCS features
-Twin prop with cross-coupled twin gas turbines.
-Modified CEAFAR "CEAFAR lite" with smaller arrays
-10-12 VLS cells in single rows down the middle of each hull. with combination of ESSM, Harpoon 3 and new Aussie designed GPS guided/inflight updatable ASW missile.
-Rotary UAV and facilities.
-Nulka
 
 
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Aussiegunneragain    My ideal Aussie Corvette   11/19/2008 9:16:28 AM

-+-1500tonnes

-Twin Hulls for 35+ knot dash speed and shallow water operations

-Hydrodynamic variable depth sonar array that can be lowered between the hulls

-Low RCS features

-Twin prop with cross-coupled twin gas turbines.

-Modified CEAFAR "CEAFAR lite" with smaller arrays

-10-12 VLS cells in single rows down the middle of each hull. with combination of ESSM, Harpoon 3 and new Aussie designed GPS guided/inflight updatable ASW missile.

-Rotary UAV and facilities.

-Nulka

 


Oops, forgot the 57mm bolt on deck gun up front.
 
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Aussiegunneragain    My ideal Aussie Corvette   11/19/2008 9:18:03 AM




-+-1500tonnes



-Twin Hulls for 35+ knot dash speed and shallow water operations



-Hydrodynamic variable depth sonar array that can be lowered between the hulls



-Low RCS features



-Twin prop with cross-coupled twin gas turbines.



-Modified CEAFAR "CEAFAR lite" with smaller arrays



-10-12 VLS cells in single rows down the middle of each hull. with combination of ESSM, Harpoon 3 and new Aussie designed GPS guided/inflight updatable ASW missile.



-Rotary UAV and facilities.



-Nulka



 






Oops, forgot the 57mm bolt on deck gun up front.


And the 2 x triple torpedo tubes. I'm going to call this the "Defiant Class" Corvette in honour of my favourite Star Trek ship :-).
 
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Volkodav       11/20/2008 5:01:12 AM
in honour of my favourite Star Trek ship :-).
Now that explains a lot!
 
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Aussiegunneragain    Volkodav   11/20/2008 7:34:47 AM

in honour of my favourite Star Trek ship :-).


Now that explains a lot!



Hmmmm, I'm not sure how to take that but suffice to say I'm not ashamed of enjoying the occasional episode of DS-9. Live long and prosper :-).
 
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BLUIE006       11/20/2008 7:40:29 AM
The Austral the Multi-Role Corvette (MRC) would be a suitable platform for Anti-Piracy operations in our northern approaches the pacific and beyond. The multi-purpose decks give the MRC a very effective capability as a border control ship and in support of small landing parties.A MRC is able to carry any new RHIBs the SOCOMD acquires and transport SAS or 4RAR providing maritime mobility platform for Special Operations Command (SOCOMD)
 
Speed 35 knots - almost 10 knots  faster than the patrol boats!!! combined this with the stealthy superstructure and it becomes suited to chasing fast moving pirates/smugglers and submarines.
The Helicopter deck and hangar allow for Anti-submarine ops and rapid deployment of Specials!  in pursuit of bandits fleeing to shore.
The mission deck allows the MRC to be rapidly reconfigured using containerised modules
A crew of only 35, would provide a highly economical solution to EEZ patrol and security operations in choke points and archepelo's , freeing up major surface combatants for other blue water roles.
 
The trimaran design also allows high speeds in quite heavy seas and, equally important, the wide beam of a catamaran design allows helicopter operations in conditions where other ships would close down.
 
I suggest there is a place for it, even if in only small numbers....Does need some more fire-power though!!!
 
 
 

 

 
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HERALD1357       11/20/2008 7:52:41 AM

Corvettes might be a good idea for coastal ASW so long as they are equipped with adequate weapons systems to deal with the modern submarine threat. That means an anti-air warfare system like SPY-1K which can deal with submarine launched missiles (I wonder if CEAFAR will be shrunk to Corvette size?) and ASW systems with adequate range to hit a sub with long range torpedos and missiles such as a helo (manned or unmanned) or anti submarine missiles. My question is whether both requirements can be fitted onto a small hull? (happy for an answer from anybody). Alternatively would a very fast Corvette that can quickly run down an enemy sub and hit it with lightweight torpedos be the answer?  If none of these options work I think we would be better off just getting more frigates.


The answer is that you can get two of the three requirements as long as you orient toward helo operations and forget about AAW except as point defense single layer addon.
 
I'm more interested in that OPV as an anti-pirate antidote in your AOs and in ours. Helos with rockets and a ship with a stop and search detachment and a hull big enough to carry an anti-surface ship gun yet cheap enough to replace that monstrosity called our USCG National Security  Cutter one for one? Sounds like an ideal 21st century gunboat to me. I like that idea. The USCG Deepwater fiasco has given me a love for things Austal like that.
 
Herald
 
 

 
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SCisback       11/20/2008 7:21:53 PM


Speed 35 knots - almost 10 knots  faster than the patrol boats!!! combined this with the stealthy superstructure and it becomes suited to chasing fast moving pirates/smugglers and submarines. (1)
...
...

 
The trimaran design also allows high speeds in quite heavy seas and, equally important, the wide beam of a catamaran design allows helicopter operations in conditions where other ships would close down.  (2)

 

1. How exactly will excessive speed help in aiding ASW work? Nobody, sub or skimmer, goes around at risiculously high speed expecting to get too much help from thier Sonar.
And "stealth" simply means a reduced RCS. It does not make it invisible toeither radar nor the human eye, I dont think its usefulness in anti-piracy work is that far reaching.
 
2. Now here you must be taking the piss... Trimarans are shocking in any sort of sea state. Seeing Triton go through cyclone avoidance I honestly thought at times that I was gonna witness her entire crew buy the farm. At that moment you could not have paid me enough to swap my place in a patrol boat for thier place in hell.
 
 
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Volkodav       11/21/2008 5:58:37 AM
1. How exactly will excessive speed help in aiding ASW work? Nobody, sub or skimmer, goes around at risiculously high speed expecting to get too much help from thier Sonar.
And "stealth" simply means a reduced RCS. It does not make it invisible toeither radar nor the human eye, I dont think its usefulness in anti-piracy work is that far reaching.
 
Virginia's patrol at approx 21kt and the Collins would if they could but relying on batteries for submerged endurance that is not an option.
 
The RN likes to boost and coast in ASW ops with their towed arrays.
 
With the new deployable / disposable arrays under development an ASW vessel could scatter a couple of arrays around the patrol area and wait in the middle of the "web" like a spider ready to pounce on anything unlucky enough to be detected.
 
2. Now here you must be taking the piss... Trimarans are shocking in any sort of sea state. Seeing Triton go through cyclone avoidance I honestly thought at times that I was gonna witness her entire crew buy the farm. At that moment you could not have paid me enough to swap my place in a patrol boat for thier place in hell.
 
I would wait and see how LCS 2 Independence goes on trials and what the USN thinks of trimarans before assuming the concept is a failure.  I think you would agree that there are many mono hulls out there where seakeeping was a foreign concept to their designer.
 
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