We were given the opportunity to assemble Dassault Rafaele's here but decided on the untried (at that time) JSF instead. If we had of gone ahead with Rafales, we would have some in service by now.

What a WOFTAM that would have been.  BTW, we were also offered localised production of Su-27's and long range missiles - that would have been as equally "useful" - NOT.

 

why the hell would we even consider going for that orphaned rubbish?

 

Thank god we didn't.  I'd rather see a 100 super hornets in service than a 100 rafales.  good grief, the french have only just got Link 16 added to them so that they can talk to other assets in theatre.  JSF, AWD and Wedgetail will have Link22.

 

Rafale, the gift that keeps on giving. :)

The new model Steyr to replace our current rifles looks like it will be designed and manufactured here. but apart from that, most weapons are imported.

ADI abolsutely ferked the Steyr in the early days because they (for some ungodly reason) thought that they were more proficient gunsmiths than the austrians.

 

There's a reason why ADI were nicknamed Another Defective Item

 

 

With the current world financial situation, and the low Aussie Dollar, the more equipment that we can make in Australia the better. The RAN seems to be mostly Australian made, with the AWD's and future subs etc., except for the LHD's being made in Spain.
The RAAF is the opposite, with all aircraft and weapons being imported. We were given the opportunity to assemble Dassault Rafaele's here but decided on the untried (at that time) JSF instead. If we had of gone ahead with Rafales, we would have some in service by now.
The Army has most of its fleet made here (except tanks). The new model Steyr to replace our current rifles looks like it will be designed and manufactured here. but apart from that, most weapons are imported.
What other equipment that is currently imported, or we have yet to order, could be designed, made, assembled, here in Autralia?

IMHO we should be buying kit first and foremost with the view of getting the best gear for our guys, wherever it comes from. The opportunity to build Australia's defence industrial capability is a secondary bonus if our companies are able to compete with internationally and the opportunity to create jobs here comes third.

 

As for the industrial benefits of the Rafale vs the JSF I'd take the industry opportunities that come with the latter any day. At least we know that if our companies win an order that they have done so in a very competive environment which reduces the risk of them producing a crap product. I don't understand the big deal about the fact that we bought in to the early stages "off the plan" either. It is what you have to do if you want a leading edge product and it is what the US has to do all the time. At the end of the day we don't have to finally commit for a little while yet anyway and the program is doing very well.  I agree with GF on the Steyr. I got one of the first batch and we couldn't keep the ferking things firing reliably. It was a disgrace.

 

Finally I'm not an expert in government procurement but I would be very suprised if short-term currency values had a major impact on a long term equipment buy, especially when the government doesn't pay all the money up front. I'd imagine that they either plan on a long-term average value for the $A or that they would use some sort of hedging product to reduce/remove the currency risk over the life of the purchase.

On the Steyr, I really don't understand why we are going to the expense of upgrading it at all.

 

Our Spec Warries are already using M-4's in place of the F88 and those used by the Btn's on ops since the early 90's would be pretty much shagged while the rear echelons probably don't really need anything better.

 

My solution, retain the basic F88 for non combat troops and launch a competition to find a new family of firearms to replace the M-4 and F88 in the Special Forces, RAR and CAV.  Look outside the square and maybe look at 6.8mm and .338" instead of just 5.56 and 7.62. Consider something that has Carbine, Rifle, AR and DM variants out of the box and is also designed to be fitted with accessories.  Above all look at the experience of our troops in the field and where possible also that of other nations fighting along side us before making a decision.

 

This will deliver better capability, flexibility and reliability to those who need it most without the expense of upgrading or replacing the entire stock of existing F88's

"Our Spec Warries are already using M-4's in place of the F88"
 

I thought our "Specials" were using decent European weapons, like Hecler & Koch.  Or was this just their wish list?

Theres nothing wrong with the F88 such that it should be replaced. All the old ones are being remanufactured into F88S's, so they aren't wearing out. The reason the spec-warries use the M4 is because it is easier to modify and hang accessories off, not because there is anything wrong with the F88. There's nothing the average infantryman is ever going to need on his weapon that can't already be attached the current F88, so the M4 wouldn't be a better weapon. There are no weapons currently on the market that are demonstrably better than the F88, certainly not enough to justify the hundreds of millions of dollars it would cost to change weapon systems. Changing to a different calibre wouldn't be very smart either - at least not until our major allies do the same (BTW, why would you chamber an assault rifle in .338 - massive overkill).

Regarding the spec-warries use of M4s - most of the ones I've seen have the HK-416 upper on the Colt lower. So it is essentially a HK-416 in operation. I shot one and the only difference I noticed was that the gas-piston HK-416 was a lot louder and had a faster rate of fire than the normal M4.

 

 

Mmm....SIG 552 or G36C?  I assume its the replacement entry gun under Redfin you're refering to?

 

I am also assuming they chose 5.56mm for the job rather than 4.6mm (MP7) or 5.7mm (P90).

 

 

H&K have been enthusiastically trying to get the MP7 across the line..... 

 

can't comment about what's what in the zoo though...