Why isn't the GRES able to take a more active role in supporting the ARA?  I am not saying you are wrong but rather I am concerned that such an expensive asset as the GRES is not more useful or effective, especially in current times where the ARA is working its collective butt off and suffering from recruitment and retention issues.

 

I know being a member of the GRES became much harder during the late 90's with industrial law changes forcing many, including myself, to go inactive; but I had assumed that legislation and employer incentive programs had fixed this.  Considering the money being spent on, the additional traing required and the employment protection provided, why arn't the reserves more effective?

They certainly didn't give the regs a boost during the last recession in the early 90's. Instead they turned the two reg battalion groups in 6 brigade into Ready Reserve units and turned the accompanying ARES battle group into the same.

Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing the basis for those budget numbers. I strongly suspect that the Reserves come out so expensive because fixed costs like the opportunity cost of defence land as well as the depreciation on their equipment is included. You could question the value of spreading those fixed costs across so few troops in the first instance but you have to remember that in the instance of a really big conflict everybody in the inactive list would be called up and put into those units. Therefore while the peacetime economics doesn't look that flash it is still worthwhile keeping the facilities in place.

 

As for the ongoing variable costs of running a reserve unit, I don't accept that they are going to be nearly as high per soldier as that of a regular one. It just doesn't make sense that with the much lower pay and less training that this would be the case. In the specific instance that I am describing, i.e. bringing a regiment of ASLAV's over to the Reserves, the ASLAV's have already been paid for so the only issue is how much we are going to pay to operate them. The fact is that the reserves would do it cheaper so the question becomes whether or not we need the capability ready at short notice. I don't think we do so why not save the money.

Their job is to provide reinforcements for large, long term operations which require multiple rotations.

If that is their job, then why after near 10 years of ongoing long term operations are Reserve units not rotating through operations? Even though we are deploying gun batteries and engineer squadrons as rifle companies due to lack of numbers - and some soldiers have been doing 6-months on, 8-month off rotations - we are not sending our reserve rifle companies anywhere remotely dangerous. The SI are the only place that Reserve units are deploying, and that is the most benign environment imaginable. Its interesting to note however that it takes an entire Reserve brigade - sometimes two - to scrape together the 110 warm bodies required for each OP Anode rotation. The plan was that the Reserves would also man RCB, but that was shelved after the Reserves couldn't provide the numbers.

What the Reserves can provide, and are providing, is individual reinforcements for ARA units that are deploying, and soliders for domestic security like what happens at the commonwealth games. You don't need armour or arty guns in the Reserves to provide this capability.

Reality check, I said large operations. Despite the fact that we have had the highest operational tempo for 10 years we aren't facing the type of operations that would justify a compulsory callout of the Reserves. Doing so not only interferes with the lives of the reservists involved but necessitates putting less well prepared troops in harms way. That is sometimes a necessity that we have to accept but not for the level of ops we face now. Only an operational commitment the size of Vietnam or larger would justify that and in that instance the reserves would go (the law would be changed) and they WOULD need guns and armour. In the meantime the ARA with some HRR support is coping.

We don't need two or three ARA cavalry regiments available at short notice so the role for the reserves is obvious

Says who? We need at least two cavalry regiments now just to maintain our current operational commitments. When we were supporting OBG(W) as well even two cavalry regiments wasn't enough - 2 CAV and 2/14 combined couldn't have maintained SECDET, OBG(W) and RTF any longer than they did. One cavalry regiment is nowhere near enough.

That assumes that ASLAV's are the only type of kit that we could contribute to these operations. If we had proper IFV's like I am suggesting we could send those and do many aspects of the work better and as I have said before the Bushmasters can take a lot of the role that the ASLAV-PC's were previously doing. If we maintained one Cav regiment we would still have the capability to rotate a squadron through any op and I don't see why we need more than that.

There's been no softening of the job market to go along with the weak economy though. The possibility of a recession hasn't stopped a number of my diggers from submitting their discharge - and they've all got jobs waiting for them. I don't anticipate that changing any time soon.

Yes, well in my current job I'm a tad closer to the action on the state of the economy than you are and let me suggest that a few of those diggers might be coming back to you when they are out of work over the next year or two. This year's budget forecast a softening of the job figures in the next year and that was even before the current international turmoil. We haven't even started to see the effects of this on Australia yet.

Until Australia does the same and activates reservists for service, the Reserves will be pretty useless. If legislation were changed such that the Army can just activate Reserves, spend 6 months getting their individual and collective training up to speed, and then deploying them, they would be useful. It's not going to happen any time soon though.

That's the key ... until they do this the Reserve can never be fully utilised.  The chances of this happening ... not in my lifetime

What sort of contingency are we waiting for then? In the entire history of Australia, we have only sent 'reserves' on operations once, and that was when Militia battalions were sent to the SWPA in WWII. Not since WWII have reserve Australian units been send overseas to fight - not in Korea, not in Vietnam, not in the Middle 

Technically not exactly correct.  We sent in reserves into ET and then realised that we'd done it illegally.  Govt had to call a 0200 parliamentary session to get it officially approved.

Conveniently then you are not the guy in charge. Army wants more cavalry. From the COA, to Comd 1 Div, to Brigade commanders etc - all want more cavalry. To say we should have less is stupid.

and the exciting bit re this are the changes that will happen to 6 RAR.  They won't exactly be the "Manchus" - but they'll be the most electronically fused cohort in the ADF.

That makes sense, the fact GRES members have to volunteer to serve full time makes it very difficult for many of them to do so. 

 I went inactive in 98 due to pressure from work, i.e. they wanted me to work every weekend and annual leave was only to be taken at Christmas shut down.  I was one of many civilian qualified, tradesmen / technicians / professionals who left the GRES during the late 90's after being forced to choose between our careers and what our employers saw as our hobbies.

My employment contract stated that I was not permitted to work for anyone else and overtime was to be worked as required with 12 hours on 12 hours off 6 days a week and 6 hours on the Sunday being the norm. 

 

During 99 I was approached to come back to the ADF and go full time for a year with 1 Armoured, 3/4 CAV and 5/7 RAR all mentioned as options as well as informal approaches from contacts RAEME and RAE who were interested in my civy quals.  Hindsight is a wonderfull thing but at the time I was only several months off my long service prorata and my employers made it very clear if I went full time Reserves for a year they would sack me for frustration of my employment contract.

 

The end result from what I saw was that the majority of competent reservists were forced to choose between their civilian career and starting a full time military career as there was no way we could have career in both civy street and the GRES.  Had it simply been a case of getting a letter saying I had to go and knowing my civy career was protected by law I would have gone full time in a flash. 

Reality check, I said large operations. Despite the fact that we have had the highest operational tempo for 10 years we aren't facing the type of operations that would justify a compulsory callout of the Reserves.

What sort of contingency are we waiting for then? In the entire history of Australia, we have only sent 'reserves' on operations once, and that was when Militia battalions were sent to the SWPA in WWII. Not since WWII have reserve Australian units been send overseas to fight - not in Korea, not in Vietnam, not in the Middle East. Not a single CMF unit was sent to Vietnam - we simply kept raising ARA battalions instead. If we aren't going to call out reserves for these scale operations, what is the point of having them? If we aren't prepared to use our forces, then there is no point in having them - all they are doing is soaking up money that can be better used by those who will fight.

If we maintained one Cav regiment we would still have the capability to rotate a squadron through any op and I don't see why we need more than that.

Conveniently then you are not the guy in charge. Army wants more cavalry. From the COA, to Comd 1 Div, to Brigade commanders etc - all want more cavalry. To say we should have less is stupid.

In the end though, this thread is about saving money. You suggest cancelling the M113 upgrade program that is already near completion while buying a few battalions of old IFVs. You also suggest disbanding ARA units with the one proven AFV capability we have and want more of to give them to Reservists that won't be called out for anything less than WWIII. How is any of that supposed to save money? You couldn't pick worse ways to save money and maintain capability if you tried.

What an utter load of obsfucation and misrepresentative bullshit. In Vietnam we sent conscripts which was a decision which was much harder than pulling reserves out of their day to day lives. That proves that Australian governments are willing to pull its citizens out of their day to day life if it is justified by a large enough conflict. The fact that the conscripts served in ARA units is beside the point. I don't know exactly why they chose to do it that way, but I suspect that there were more credible threats to Australian interests at home and in the near region in those days that they decided to keep the reserve units at home in case of such a contingency. Nowdays without that sort of direct threat obviously we would be compulsorally calling up the Reserves in a situation that justified it before conscripting.

 

As for the COA, I don't know his pesonal views on more Cavalry and I don't believe that you do either. I would suggest however that any enthusiasim for it outside of the RAAC would evaporate if the mechanised units were offerred the prospect of proper IFV's in exchange for loosing a regular Cav regiment. The thing that is obviously going to get in the way of that is that the Government isn't going to want to ditch the M-113 upgrade program as it would be an admission that it was a good idea. Hence we will continue to see good money thrown after bad, like we did with the Seasprogs. Hopefully some of the senior brass with get a clue when they are looking at the new common armoured vehicle and will seek to replace the M-113's with modern tracked IFV's. We don't need a replacement for the ASLAV's for at least 15 to 20 years and for th Bushmasters for at least 25, so it is the obvious decision. Clearly ditching an ARA Cavalry regiment would be an acceptable offset if that was required to get the much better capability up in 5 and 7 RAR.