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Subject: Typhoon Briefing - Wed 22/10
gf0012-aust    10/20/2008 4:53:42 AM
For those australians in the canberra area... Unfort I can't go as tied up with other work issues. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ UNCLASSIFIED THE EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON – CAPABILITY BRIEF Wing Commander Jez Attridge, MBE RAF The Eurofighter Typhoon is a twin-engine, canard-delta wing, multirole, generation 4.5 strike-fighter aircraft. It is being designed and built by a consortium of three separate partner companies: Alenia Aeronautica, BAE Systems, and EADS working through a holding company Eurofighter GmbH which was formed in 1986. The series development of the Typhoon is underway with the aircraft in operational service with the Royal Air Force, the Luftwaffe, the Italian Air Force, the Spanish Air Force and the Austrian Air Force. Saudi Arabia has signed a GB £4.43 billion (approx. AUD 10.3 billion) contract for 72. The Typhoon is growing in capability as the series develops; those in operational service today will evolve over time. In this presentation, WGCDR Attridge will provide some insights into the capabilities and strategic implications of the introduction of a current generation aircraft. Wing Commander Jez Attridge Jez Attridge is currently attending the Australian Command and Staff College at Weston Creek. He flew the Tornado F3 from 1991 to 1999, the F/A-18 on exchange duties with the USMC from 1999 - 2002 and latterly the Eurofighter Typhoon from 2005-7. He will take command of XI Sqn (Typhoon) in April 2008. The seminar will commence promptly at 1030 hours. As this seminar is expected to be well attended we require interested delegates to register their attendance prior to the seminar to ensure a seat. For further information and to register your attendance, please contact: Air Power Development Centre
 
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gf0012-aust       10/24/2008 4:26:54 AM

Just curious, is it just a case of clearance level or is it also need to know and relevance to your role?
 
Basically would someone like me be able to attend?



These types of briefings require pre-registration, thats the initial way to validate whether someone has relevance etc...
2nd part is that before it commenced they reiterated that it was for Aust, US and UK Nationals only. (Odd that the Germans, Spanish and Italians weren't included, but I would assume that they already knew through pre-registration that none were present)
 
However, I know of one non Defence guest (I'd sent him the details earlier as I knew he was involved with the Tiff, so I assumed that he'd pre-registered as well)  
 
 Basically, it depends on the session being run and then it depends on what the gatekeepers say.
 
If it was UNCLASSIFIED  or  above then they would have either run it out of another building, or set up different security checks.
 
 
 
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Volkodav       10/24/2008 4:39:14 AM
Ok so if I knew I was going to be in town for something interesting I should just register and see what happens?
 
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gf0012-aust       10/24/2008 4:44:08 AM

Ok so if I knew I was going to be in town for something interesting I should just register and see what happens?

These things are often short notice (eg as low as 48hrs).  When they are long lead ins then we get about a weeks warning.
I can send you stuff as it comes through, but the next 2 air combat/air power events are already booked out internally.
 
there will be one from the air combat guys on 4th-fth gen fighters but thats expected to be closed off to pass holders only.
 
 
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Aussiegunneragain       10/24/2008 5:00:37 AM

Excellent briefing.  Unfortunately it was flagged as Sensitive and not for Public release.  AUST/US/UK Cleared Nationals only.

 
No Kiwi's (not that it would matter with thier non-airforce) or Canadians? Intersting.

 
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hairy man       10/24/2008 5:47:30 PM
gf, was it an attempt to put the Typhoon in with a chance for the RAAF, should the F35 deal fall over?
 
 
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gf0012-aust       10/24/2008 7:29:17 PM

gf, was it an attempt to put the Typhoon in with a chance for the RAAF, should the F35 deal fall over?
 

big caveat.
 
If the Typhoon has the Super Hornets sensor fusion and AESA then I would pick the Typhoon every time.  Better handling, better thrust to weight (just manages to beat the F-22), solid load out and some very very tricky weapons smarts and better range.
 
It doesn't.
 
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Aussiegunneragain    GF   10/24/2008 9:30:01 PM




gf, was it an attempt to put the Typhoon in with a chance for the RAAF, should the F35 deal fall over?

 



big caveat.

 If the Typhoon has the Super Hornets sensor fusion and AESA then I would pick the Typhoon every time.  Better handling, better thrust to weight (just manages to beat the F-22), solid load out and some very very tricky weapons smarts and better range.

 It doesn't.

The point is however is that in the short-term the Typhoon would thump anything in the region without the AESA and sensor fusion and in the long term there is the prospect of upgrading it to include those features. In contrast the airframe that the SH has is the one that it is stuck with.
 
The Tiffy would also be far more likely to sell for a decent second-hand price if we decided to only use it as an interim type.
 
Damn I wish we had an interim fighter competition when the Sing's did. We would be in a much better position now.

 
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gf0012-aust       10/24/2008 11:55:28 PM
The point is however is that in the short-term the Typhoon would thump anything in the region without the AESA and sensor fusion and in the long term there is the prospect of upgrading it to include those features. In contrast the airframe that the SH has is the one that it is stuck with.

The Tiffy would also be far more likely to sell for a decent second-hand price if we decided to only use it as an interim type.
 
Damn I wish we had an interim fighter competition when the Sing's did. We would be in a much better position now.


I'd stick a Typhoon against an improved Flanker as they are - they're in no rush to put AESA on them as they (pilots) reckon that they can deal with all existing and extant threats for the next nn years.
 
If we lived in a predictable world where their forward estimates rang true, then on that  basis, I wish we'd got Typhoons.  The issue is the degree of sensor fusion we want to buy and have in the next 3-12 years while the JSF comes online.  If it was urgent (and I don't believe it is), then you get the max avail capability and wear the expense.
 
As it is, I'm still of the view that they would have been a better short term prospect - esp as we aren't intending to keep the Shornets anyway. We probably could have got more favourable lease terms as well. As an outright buy, they're more expensive than Shornets and the lack of equiv sensor fusion on pure bang for buck (absolute existing capability) thus makes them an expensive alternative
 
Shornets have always been third on my list. 
 
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gf0012-aust       10/24/2008 11:59:16 PM

..... the long term there is the prospect of upgrading it to include those features. In contrast the airframe that the SH has is the one that it is stuck with.

am not permitted to speak of development timeframes - but their AESA build is outside of our "wants" window.  It's not because they can't get it built, it's because they believe that their existing fitout could smack about any existing threat in the next sizeable threat window.
 
at  a flight performance level, they absolutely schitt all over the Shornet - and there is more that they can do with that airframne.
 
 
 
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Volkodav       10/25/2008 1:18:19 AM
am not permitted to speak of development timeframes - but their AESA build is outside of our "wants" window.  It's not because they can't get it built, it's because they believe that their existing fitout could smack about any existing threat in the next sizeable threat window.
 
at  a flight performance level, they absolutely schitt all over the Shornet - and there is more that they can do with that airframne.

Considering the Gripen NG is getting an AESA (based on Blue Vixen?) and already has a level of sensor fusion (I think but can't remember the reference source) the Tiffy getting or not getting both is clearly a case of requirements not a lack of ability to do it.
Looking at the offset and production deal the Saudi's got its too bad we didn't go into AIR6000 looking for two types from the start.  The conformal fuel tanked, Storm Shadow armed Typhoon that was offered in an unsolicited bid to replace the F-111 early (back in C2000) would have been a very nice bit of kit and with the way the Tiffy is selling at the moment we could have made some cash back on the deal.  It would also have allowed us to build extra aircraft to cover any delay in the F-35.
 
I assume the Tiffy briefing would have been similar to one I attended on Tango Bravo last year but on a larger scale.  It wasn't classified as such but was considered comercial in confidence and only permanent employees were allowed to attend.  I can't remember if there were any nationality or ITAR restrictions on it though.
 
 
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