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Subject: theaustralian: 'Defence spending surges to world's 13th largest'
fall out    9/3/2008 7:54:25 PM
AUSTRALIA'S defence budget is now the 13th biggest in the world, an international league table shows. Canberra's defence spending has leapt by about 56 per cent in the past seven years to $25.66 billion, meaning it now spends more than some European Union countries. BIG DEFENCE SPENDERS 1. US $US696.30 billion 2. Britain $US79.27 billion 3. France $US65.74 billion. 4. China $US58.07 billion 5. Japan $US48.10 billion 6. Germany $US43.55 billion 7. Saudi Arabia $US38.32 billion 8. Russian Federation $US36.73 billion 9. Italy $US31.40 billion 10. South Korea $US28.30 billion 11. India $US27.21 billion 12. Brazil $US24.62 billion 13. Australia $US19.74 billion 14. Spain $US19.37 billion 15. Canada $US16.19 billion Source: Jane's Industry Quarterly However, Australia is still dwarfed by the US, which has set aside $US696.30 billion ($832.7 billion) for its armed forces this year. The figures were compiled by defence analysts for Jane's Industry Quarterly which also found that China's defence budget of $US58.07 billion ($69.45 billion) had grown to be the world's fourth largest. Britain and France were the second and third biggest spenders with $US79.27 billion ($94.8 billion) and $US65.74 billion ($78.62 billion) respectively. While Jane's has forecast Australia's spending to hit $29.47 billion in 2010, Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon has hired a consultant to see if the amount can be trimmed by $1 billion a year over the next decade. Part of the reason behind the rise in Australia's spending over the years has been its decision to buy more equipment for its armed forces, which have been deployed to hotspots including Iraq and Afghanistan as well as East Timor. The figure rose from $3.5 billion in 2001 to $4.78 billion this year, according to Jane's, with fighter aircraft, tanks and helicopters all on the shopping list. The rest of the money in the overall defence budget is used to cover wages, medical bills, food and operational costs for army, navy and air force personnel. Guy Anderson, editor of Jane's Industry Quarterly, said Australia's strong economic growth was the main reason it could afford to boost its defence budget. As a result, Australia had become an attractive place for foreign defence companies, such as British giant BAE Systems, to set up manufacturing bases to make products to sell worldwide. “The rest of the world is very interested in the Australian defence market,” Anderson told AAP. “It's an advanced and politically stable country in quite a dangerous neighbourhood and there's an explicit government commitment to defence spending. “Australia is also a great springboard for companies into the Asian region as it is one of the better places to do business because of its stability and its strong reputation. “So, if you are an American or French or British defence company you can go into Asia from Australia which gives you an enormous advantage.” AAP --- I'm sure guys are happy about this, I bet you would want more though ;) Any special comments?
 
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DropBear       9/3/2008 9:31:34 PM

I wonder how much of the billion in savings the consultant will skim off for services rendered?

 
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Arty Farty       9/3/2008 9:55:57 PM

...... meaning it now spends more than some European Union countries.


Like all those small ones.
 
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Enterpriser       9/3/2008 10:22:25 PM

AUSTRALIA'S defence budget is now the 13th biggest in the world, an international league table shows.

Canberra's defence spending has leapt by about 56 per cent in the past seven years to $25.66 billion, meaning it now spends more than some European Union countries.

BIG DEFENCE SPENDERS
1. US $US696.30 billion
2. Britain $US79.27 billion
3. France $US65.74 billion.
4. China $US58.07 billion
5. Japan $US48.10 billion
6. Germany $US43.55 billion
7. Saudi Arabia $US38.32 billion
8. Russian Federation $US36.73 billion
9. Italy $US31.40 billion
10. South Korea $US28.30 billion
11. India $US27.21 billion
12. Brazil $US24.62 billion
13. Australia $US19.74 billion
14. Spain $US19.37 billion
15. Canada $US16.19 billion

Source: Jane's Industry Quarterly
However, Australia is still dwarfed by the US, which has set aside $US696.30 billion ($832.7 billion) for its armed forces this year.

The figures were compiled by defence analysts for Jane's Industry Quarterly which also found that China's defence budget of $US58.07 billion ($69.45 billion) had grown to be the world's fourth largest.

Britain and France were the second and third biggest spenders with $US79.27 billion ($94.8 billion) and $US65.74 billion ($78.62 billion) respectively.

While Jane's has forecast Australia's spending to hit $29.47 billion in 2010, Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon has hired a consultant to see if the amount can be trimmed by $1 billion a year over the next decade.

Part of the reason behind the rise in Australia's spending over the years has been its decision to buy more equipment for its armed forces, which have been deployed to hotspots including Iraq and Afghanistan as well as East Timor.

The figure rose from $3.5 billion in 2001 to $4.78 billion this year, according to Jane's, with fighter aircraft, tanks and helicopters all on the shopping list.

The rest of the money in the overall defence budget is used to cover wages, medical bills, food and operational costs for army, navy and air force personnel.

Guy Anderson, editor of Jane's Industry Quarterly, said Australia's strong economic growth was the main reason it could afford to boost its defence budget.

As a result, Australia had become an attractive place for foreign defence companies, such as British giant BAE Systems, to set up manufacturing bases to make products to sell worldwide.

?The rest of the world is very interested in the Australian defence market,? Anderson told AAP.

?It's an advanced and politically stable country in quite a dangerous neighbourhood and there's an explicit government commitment to defence spending.

?Australia is also a great springboard for companies into the Asian region as it is one of the better places to do business because of its stability and its strong reputation.

?So, if you are an American or French or British defence company you can go into Asia from Australia which gives you an enormous advantage.?

AAP

---

I'm sure guys are happy about this, I bet you would want more though ;)

Any special comments?

And, given we are around 14th on the list of countries by GDP (spending only around 1.9 % on Defence), this is 'news' why?
Brett 
 
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Enterpriser       9/3/2008 10:47:19 PM
In the 2008/09 financial year the portfolio budget statements make clear that Federal Government alone will spend twice this defence figure on Health alone (which, even when being generous, we now -thanks to the election campaign bitching- know is only about 44 % at best of overall funding for health). So more than four times the defence figure just on health alone.
 
Using 2003/4 Figures (the most up to date I can find without wasting an hour of my life) I am going to reproduce for everyone's benefit a table that might make the picture of ratios clearer for Aus. Fed. Dollars only. Dollars are inj Billions:
 
  Defence         Public Order & Safety       Education         Health         Social Security & Welfare         Other           Total
      
13.970                     2.353                         13.160           31.365                  75.455                            73.458         209.761
 
So Defence Dollars Represented 6.659 percent of Commonwealth Outlays in this year (03/04).
 
I should disclose these figures came from ASPI and their Defence Almanac (Read, Mark Thompson). Admittedly when flicking over two pages to their historical list of dollar outlays for each year, what that represented as a % of GDP and as a % of Cth outlays, I noted that they had 15.187 for 03/04 (dispite the claim above which is two pages over in the Almanac) that would mean 1.9 %  of GDP and 8.4% of GDP.
 
Brett.
 
 
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Aussiegunneragain       9/4/2008 6:59:27 AM



AUSTRALIA'S defence budget is now the 13th biggest in the world, an international league table shows.



Canberra's defence spending has leapt by about 56 per cent in the past seven years to $25.66 billion, meaning it now spends more than some European Union countries.



BIG DEFENCE SPENDERS

1. US $US696.30 billion

2. Britain $US79.27 billion

3. France $US65.74 billion.

4. China $US58.07 billion

5. Japan $US48.10 billion

6. Germany $US43.55 billion

7. Saudi Arabia $US38.32 billion

8. Russian Federation $US36.73 billion

9. Italy $US31.40 billion

10. South Korea $US28.30 billion

11. India $US27.21 billion

12. Brazil $US24.62 billion

13. Australia $US19.74 billion

14. Spain $US19.37 billion

15. Canada $US16.19 billion



Source: Jane's Industry Quarterly

However, Australia is still dwarfed by the US, which has set aside $US696.30 billion ($832.7 billion) for its armed forces this year.



The figures were compiled by defence analysts for Jane's Industry Quarterly which also found that China's defence budget of $US58.07 billion ($69.45 billion) had grown to be the world's fourth largest.



Britain and France were the second and third biggest spenders with $US79.27 billion ($94.8 billion) and $US65.74 billion ($78.62 billion) respectively.



While Jane's has forecast Australia's spending to hit $29.47 billion in 2010, Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon has hired a consultant to see if the amount can be trimmed by $1 billion a year over the next decade.



Part of the reason behind the rise in Australia's spending over the years has been its decision to buy more equipment for its armed forces, which have been deployed to hotspots including Iraq and Afghanistan as well as East Timor.



The figure rose from $3.5 billion in 2001 to $4.78 billion this year, according to Jane's, with fighter aircraft, tanks and helicopters all on the shopping list.



The rest of the money in the overall defence budget is used to cover wages, medical bills, food and operational costs for army, navy and air force personnel.



Guy Anderson, editor of Jane's Industry Quarterly, said Australia's strong economic growth was the main reason it could afford to boost its defence budget.



As a result, Australia had become an attractive place for foreign defence companies, such as British giant BAE Systems, to set up manufacturing bases to make products to sell worldwide.



?The rest of the world is very interested in the Australian defence market,? Anderson told AAP.



?It's an advanced and politically stable country in quite a dangerous neighbourhood and there's an explicit government commitment to defence spending.



?Australia is also a great springboard for companies into the Asian region as it is one of the better places to do business because of its stability and its strong reputation.



?So, if you are an American or French or British defence company you can go into Asia from Australia which gives you an enormous advantage.?



AAP



---



I'm sure guys are happy about this, I bet you would want more though ;)



Any special comments?


And, given we are around 14th on the list of countries by GDP (spending only around 1.9 % on Defence), this is 'news' why?

Brett 

A lot of our spending goes on the much higher wages that we have to pay our soldiers, compared to those in poorer countries. On average we undoubtedly get a healthier, better educated quality of troop than then, but not that much better...
 
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Arty Farty       9/4/2008 9:48:20 PM


A lot of our spending goes on the much higher wages that we have to pay our soldiers, compared to those in poorer countries. On average we undoubtedly get a healthier, better educated quality of troop than then, but not that much better...


Sea-air gap also plays a part. Armies are cheaper than navies and air forces.
 
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eighty-eight       9/5/2008 1:24:15 AM

Higher wages for ADF personel are necessary to keep the recruits coming. With much more cash available in industries such as the mining sector even our comparably high wages are struggling to attract recruits. I reckon these wages are going to have to be increased soon enough just to keep up.

 
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eighty-eight       9/5/2008 1:30:31 AM
It seems strange that we spend more than Spain, on paper the Spanish military is very impressive (Carrier, Harriers, Eurofighter, Tiger, Leopard etc), roughly what the ADF might aim for. How is it Spain can get all that and yet spend less?
 
Maybe they don't stuff around with Seasprite etc..
 
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Volkodav    ADF retention issues   9/5/2008 5:23:34 AM
A point that many miss is that even when highly trained defence personnel leave to take up opportunities in private enterprise they are still contributing to our nation through filling important, productive roles in a variety of industries.  They go from being ready to defend us to helping to expand our economy.
 
We should be proud that ADF trained people are so sought after.
 
I wonder if the ADF's training budget should be increased and their training capacity expanded. not only to fill their future needs, but to also produce the extra people our economy needs but private enterprise has failed to provide. This would introduce economies of scale in training as well as a larger pool of trained people to take the pressure off undermanned units.  this would also give the ADF a greater choice of who they want / need to retain.
 
The increased funding would come from the education, infrastructure and industry budgets in the form of a sliding value scale determined by the cost of training each individual, less the value of returned service, who leaves to take up a role in private enterprise.
 
 
 
 
 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       9/5/2008 9:01:01 AM

It seems strange that we spend more than Spain, on paper the Spanish military is very impressive (Carrier, Harriers, Eurofighter, Tiger, Leopard etc), roughly what the ADF might aim for. How is it Spain can get all that and yet spend less?

 

Maybe they don't stuff around with Seasprite etc..


How many P-3C Orions (or similar) do they have?
 
How many C-17 Globemasters do they have?
 
How many C-130 Hercules do they have?
 
How many air to air refuellers and AWACS do they have on order?
 
How many submarines do they have?
 
How much fuel and POL's do their forces use compared to our, given the distances OUR forces have to cover, compared to theirs?
 
Our transport and sustainment assets are much greater than most European Countries, simply because we have to deploy a LONG way even within our own Country for exercises, let alone overseas anywhere...
 
Out of Western European Countries, only the UK has a greater air transport and maritime patrol capability than us and soon they won't even have the increased maritime patrol capability...

Only the UK has more AEW&C and A2A refuelling assets than we have planned etc... The list goes on, but I think my point is made. 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 

 
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