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Subject: Unmanned Systems & ADF
BLUIE006    7/27/2008 7:39:35 AM
Curious? Why aren’t unmanned systems higher on the priority list for the ADF? Given our large battlespace and limited manpower, shouldn’t we be focusing on these types force multipliers? That extends our reach and coverage? In particular… UUV /UAV (Global hawk etc - BAMS) The issues we currently face with manning our Subs may justify the limited expense of converting a Collins into a UUV carrier… US Navy estimates the use of Unmanned Undersea Vehicles could covertly extend the reach of the submarine by 100 and 200 nautical miles Such a system may prove invaluable in a potential flashpoint such as The Straits of Malacca … or Yellow Sea…. Particularly interested you your opinion GF….
 
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gf0012-aust       7/27/2008 8:06:06 AM
we already have high usage of UAV's. maybe not as broadly as the US, but certainly considerable for surveillance and escort duties in current deployments.
 
I don't see any benefit in converting a Collins to a UAV/USV ferry.  At some point there might be benefit in getting one of them to trial future swimmers for Sub2020, but we don't need to.  We get considerable access to USN developments.
 
To give an idea of developments, I was able to see a large USV that had an 8hr duration, within 2 years that mission capability was at 36hrs.  New tech improvements would change that considerably.  so I'd argue that the 200km reach is "conservative".
 
Not so sure that the Straits would benefit from USV's, but they're already overwatched by UAV's and ground stations.  It would also be more appropriate to seed the Straits with arrays than use USV's. 
 
So, in broad terms, the focus is already on UAV's (and we've migrated rapidly into using them overseas).
 
Some of the best AI available for UAV's and USV's is Australian (UQ and MIT have done a bit, and CSIRO have done considerable).  The AI developments are also iseful for "smart weapons" - so there will probably be a convergence at some point.
 
 

 
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gf0012-aust       7/27/2008 8:09:16 AM
forgot to add, we're already hooked into BAMS developments, and we already play in the intercontinental UAV surveillance space through existing relationships.... There's a dedicated UAV "group" already in place.
 

 
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BLUIE006       7/27/2008 8:52:42 AM
 The Straits of Malaccais just 25m deep at its shallowest part, Operating for long periods of time in shallow water and remaining undetected is very difficult for submarines, and UUVs could counter the water depth restrictions on submarines and make clandestine and mine detection easier?
 
See your point on waiting for technologies to mature, however is 2020 too long?
 
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BLUIE006       7/27/2008 9:15:00 AM
the 200km reach is "conservative".   
 
Hence the reason, a UUV carrier... One manned UUV carrier sub may be able to preform  surveillance (etc) duties of two standard manned subs ?  ....    ( I'm no expert....) ... Just seems like a logical solution to the Submarine manning issues....?
 
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VGNTMH    UAVs   7/27/2008 2:01:13 PM
 
UAV wise the ADF seems to be moving along:
 
1) The Army has operational Skylarks, leased ScanEagles, and ordered/in progress I-Views.
 
2) The ADF is also part of the USN's BAMS program, which recently selected the RQ-4B variant of the Global Hawk. This would seem to be the perfect HALE UAV for covering our large region.
 
3) The only major gap would be a RAN helicopter UAV, and perhaps that is best left a few years for the A-160 Hummingbird to develop?
 
Re: "Given our large battlespace and limited manpower"
 
I agree 100% that these factors point towards UAVs like the RQ-4B. Not to mention the ability to home base most of the personnel.
 
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gf0012-aust       7/27/2008 4:53:45 PM

 The Straits of Malaccais just 25m deep at its shallowest part, Operating for long periods of time in shallow water and remaining undetected is very difficult for submarines, and UUVs could counter the water depth restrictions on submarines and make clandestine and mine detection easier?
 
The Straits is a perfect example of why seabed arrays are more efficient than UUV's/USV's.  
 

See your point on waiting for technologies to mature, however is 2020 too long?
 

No, that's the time when the next gen subs will either be early cut or final definition.  We don't need to expend disproportionate effort when we have access to friendly programs and when our own research is just as advanced in some areas.  We get access to details such as that generated by USN Ex "Silent Hammer" etc, and that's more than useful to keep us in the knowledge space..  I'm not sure there's a need to exercise "indecent haste" (so to speak) when we're already looking at and doing various things in this space already..



 
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BLUIE006       7/30/2008 4:54:49 AM
I'm not suggesting Seabed Arrays shouldn't be used.... and of course they are ...
 
However UUV also have there uses, not only Straits but all over..... might be tough placing seabed array in an enemy harbor and too risky for manned sub ( due too adversities arrays etc) ....  where a UUV ...  could preform the mission with little risk?
 
 
 
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gf0012-aust       7/30/2008 5:32:10 AM

However UUV also have there uses, not only Straits but all over..... might be tough placing seabed array in an enemy harbor and too risky for manned sub ( due too adversities arrays etc) ....  where a UUV ...  could preform the mission with little risk?
 

UUV's have their uses but I'd suggest strongly that not in the areas that you suggest.  The Straits are the worst example of USV usage as the critical chokepoints are too easily managed by shore based observors, UAV's and arrays.  it's easier to seed the Straits with a fixed array - or to use any decent shallow draught water craft to tow an array to pick up submersibles of any type.  It's an order of magnitude worse than the dardanelles for any submerged asset - no matter how big they are.
 
USV/UUV's are going to be used for other mission types.
 
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