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Subject: Your thoughts on a renewed Australian Space Program
fall out    7/16/2008 2:04:57 AM
Was recently reading an old article from last year in theaustralian; (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22527985-30417,00.html) In it it details a renewed push for an Australian Space program; part of it was a plan to be the first nation on earth to send a probe into the sun as well as another sat to study the upper atmosphere of Earth. The cost; $100m over 10 years; I honestly cannot see any reason why this plan should not go ahead, Australia is one of only 2 countries in the top 25 economies of the world to not have a space program (other country is Mexico), $10m a year from a federal budget that ran a surplus of around $20bn this year surely would not break the budget and wouldn't piss short sighted voters off too much. We were the 4th country in the world to launch a satellite into space, we have the know how, one of the best launch sites in Woomera and it comes at a time where America is losing their grip in Space at a fast rate of knots with several countries aiming for a manned lunar mission and/or lunar base by 2020 (there will be a 5 year gap between the retirement of the Shuttles and the introduction of the Orion rockets where America will not have their own delivery system to space). What about trying to turn Woomera (or maybe another site?) into the region's premier launching site where we could encourage and sway other Asian nations possibly like Japan, South Korean and India to launch some of their space based assets from an Australian launching pad which could also help to generate revenue to pay for our own program and possibly please some voters with the prestige and maybe even a tourist site to watch the launches (not sure who could be f'kd going to Woomera but!!). This International involvement could also help to improve our relations with these countries and give us more clout on the global stage. I dont' believe we should let this opportunity to slip through to the keeper, Space is booming, there is talk of mining the moon for helium 3 (as well as other minerals on the moon and elsewhere). The world's combined expenditure on space from national govts is currently around $32bn p.a with NASA holding about half that however most countries budgets are in the small bn's or hundred's of mn's such as Belgium's $230mn p.a. It would not take that much out of the budget surplus to provide Australia with a Space program between 500mn and 1bn p.a which would put us around 8th to 10th biggest spenders in Space and provide Australia with not only the benefits across the board in Australia's science community but also with an independent Satellite network for both civilian and military purposes. Also, we have the world's two biggest miners that in the future could possibly be involved in mining certain parts of Space. Anyway, I would love to hear back from anyone and everyone on here as to their thoughts and opinion. As you can see, I would love nothing more ('cept for Australia to become a republic ;)) for Australia to begin their space program. Cheers, FO :)
 
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fall out       7/17/2008 10:39:14 PM





 



Btw, I almost forgot how there are couple of people left who don't mind the Queen or any Royal.  My apologies.  I can't help it sometimes. ;)











Its not about liking Liz, Chuck or any of the others - it is about having a safe, reliable system of Govt that has a long track record of working and working in spite of some of the geese at the top.


I've yet to see a republic model put up that can provide proof that it is just as safe as what we have.

 

I'm regularly stunned by the shallow reasons put forward to change a working system (in general discussion, not directed at any post in this thread).





Alright, I shouldn't have put up anything to do with a Republic.  
 
 
Back to topic.

 
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stingray1003       7/17/2008 11:04:08 PM
I love how a discussion on an Australia space program ends up as a more passionate and motivated discussion on a republic.
 
 Personally I think Australia should look at leasing/buying several of the Virgin Galatic craft. These look like ideal platforms to develop from. Launching low orbit micro/mini sats should be a doodle with these.
 
 The other option is purchase more SM-2/3 engines or rockets with out warheads/limited guidance. These should get you into LEO or atleast most of the way there. If they are too expensive, there are russian/indian etc alternatives that will also get you almost there. By them off the shelf or under a licencing agreement.
 
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Enterpriser       7/17/2008 11:59:35 PM

I love how a discussion on an Australia space program ends up as a more passionate and motivated discussion on a republic.

 

 Personally I think Australia should look at leasing/buying several of the Virgin Galatic craft. These look like ideal platforms to develop from. Launching low orbit micro/mini sats should be a doodle with these.

 

 The other option is purchase more SM-2/3 engines or rockets with out warheads/limited guidance. These should get you into LEO or atleast most of the way there. If they are too expensive, there are russian/indian etc alternatives that will also get you almost there. By them off the shelf or under a licencing agreement.



What an argument! I love it! : "We need more AWDs in order to support our SM3-based Space program!"
(now I know what I'll be saying at the White Paper consultation meeting in Brisbane next Tuesday :p )
 
Brett.
 
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stingray1003       7/18/2008 12:30:00 AM
Well if you think about it.
 
 Missiles have a finite life time (sure they are a few decades before reliability or obsolence) but eventually we are going to have to find something to do with them. Just like we have to think about disposal of any asset. Sink it as a diving wreck, recycle, resale etc. Eventually they will be not worth a whole lot as defence missiles.
 
 I wouldn't be suprised if used in this way a strong argument could be made to offset the purchase costs by using them in this manner. It could be more feasable than upgrading or overhaulling them, certainly lower risk and lower cost than developing your own missile program.
 
 Using missiles for civilian space programs has a *Very* long history. Sm-3 is a 3 stage rocket designed to shoot down ballastic missiles. Many of those ballistic missiles have sat launching counterparts for civilian space programs. With the AWD you effectively have a floating rocket launcher with advanced tracking and effective rockets.
 
 
 
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DropBear       7/18/2008 1:45:51 AM
The dreamers are dead and gone. Science is a business, not only that but one that demands almost instant returns. Short sighted science.
 
My thoughts exactly.  When the top tier of politics and big business in this country are overflowing with economists and lawyers, I doubt serious support would ever eventuate. I also doubt that Penny Wong and Kevin Rudd would like the idea of another industry that pollutes to the level of emissions generated by primary and secondary sources of aerospace technologies and the launching of said platforms.
 
Am I personally in favour of Oz being a major space contributor?
 
Nope.
 
 
 
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fall out       7/22/2008 9:53:39 PM

The dreamers are dead and gone. Science is a business, not only that but one that demands almost instant returns. Short sighted science.

 

My thoughts exactly.  When the top tier of politics and big business in this country are overflowing with economists and lawyers, I doubt serious support would ever eventuate. I also doubt that Penny Wong and Kevin Rudd would like the idea of another industry that pollutes to the level of emissions generated by primary and secondary sources of aerospace technologies and the launching of said platforms.

 

Am I personally in favour of Oz being a major space contributor?

 

Nope.

 

 


Any particular reasons as to why?
 
 
Another note, I was wondering GF (and others) if instead of using SM-3 rockets we could use the scramjet for LEO?  A new developing technology that we hold a significant advantage in.

 
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Herald12345       7/22/2008 11:19:10 PM




The dreamers are dead and gone. Science is a business, not only that but one that demands almost instant returns. Short sighted science.



 



My thoughts exactly.  When the top tier of politics and big business in this country are overflowing with economists and lawyers, I doubt serious support would ever eventuate. I also doubt that Penny Wong and Kevin Rudd would like the idea of another industry that pollutes to the level of emissions generated by primary and secondary sources of aerospace technologies and the launching of said platforms.



 



Am I personally in favour of Oz being a major space contributor?



 



Nope.



 



 







Any particular reasons as to why?

 

 

Another note, I was wondering GF (and others) if instead of using SM-3 rockets we could use the scramjet for LEO?  A new developing technology that we hold a significant advantage in.




1. Compound cycle engine gets you into near orbit, but only a rocket keeps you there.
2. The US can not permit another nation to dominate space, or we die as a nation. There are too many nations on this Earth that want to see us dead, and would dearly love to put us into that condition. Space is the only battleground where they can accomplish that.
3. We won't have a manned program for three years. Our launch pads will still be very busy.
.
Herald 
 
 
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fall out       7/23/2008 4:53:15 AM


Any particular reasons as to why?


Another note, I was wondering GF (and others) if instead of using SM-3 rockets we could use the scramjet for LEO?  A new developing technology that we hold a significant advantage in.

1. Compound cycle engine gets you into near orbit, but only a rocket keeps you there. -- Well what about a combination?  Workable?  Scramjet for initial boost and then possibly a 2nd stage rocket attached?...

2. The US can not permit another nation to dominate space, or we die as a nation. There are too many nations on this Earth that want to see us dead, and would dearly love to put us into that condition. Space is the only battleground where they can accomplish that. -- Well the United States is clearly losing it's advantage in Space, the ESA, China, India, Japan and Russia all plan to have a manned lunar mission by 2020, Europe wants a 2030 manned mars mission.  Last time I saw it was going to be a longer stint without any manned delivery systems for NASA, possibly 5, maybe longer.

3. We won't have a manned program for three years. Our launch pads will still be very busy. -- True.

Herald 

 
 

 
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fall out    Another side issue; the truth is out there...   7/25/2008 11:45:43 PM

FORMER NASA astronaut and moon-walker Dr Edgar Mitchell - a veteran of the Apollo 14 mission - has stunningly claimed aliens exist.

And he says extra-terrestrials have visited Earth on several occasions - but the alien contact has been repeatedly covered up by governments for six decades.

Dr Mitchell, 77, said during a radio interview that sources at the space agency who had had contact with aliens described the beings as 'little people who look strange to us.'

He said supposedly real-life ET's were similar to the traditional image of a small frame, large eyes and head.

Chillingly, he claimed our technology is "not nearly as sophisticated" as theirs and "had they been hostile", he warned "we would be been gone by now".

Dr Mitchell, along with with Apollo 14 commander Alan Shepard, holds the record for the longest ever moon walk, at nine hours and 17 minutes following their 1971 mission.

"I happen to have been privileged enough to be in on the fact that we've been visited on this planet and the UFO phenomena is real," Dr Mitchell said.

"It's been well covered up by all our governments for the last 60 years or so, but slowly it's leaked out and some of us have been privileged to have been briefed on some of it.

"I've been in military and intelligence circles, who know that beneath the surface of what has been public knowledge, yes - we have been visited. Reading the papers recently, it's been happening quite a bit."


Dr Mitchell, who has a Bachelor of Science degree in aeronautical engineering and a Doctor of Science degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics claimed Roswell was real and similar alien visits continue to be investigated.

He told the astonished Kerrang! radio host Nick Margerrison: "This is really starting to open up. I think we're headed for real disclosure and some serious organisations are moving in that direction."

Mr Margerrison said: "I thought I'd stumbled on some sort of astronaut humour but he was absolutely serious that aliens are definitely out there and there's no debating it."

Officials from NASA, however, were quick to play the comments down.

In a statement, a spokesman said: "NASA does not track UFOs. NASA is not involved in any sort of cover up about alien life on this planet or anywhere in the universe.

'Dr Mitchell is a great American, but we do not share his opinions on this issue.'
 
---------
 

So, is he, a former elite astronaut, speaking the truth or is he straight jacket material?
 
 
Me personally, I believe him, I have no doubt that we have been engaged by several Alien species, particularly since we began to enter space at the same time we developed weapons capable of destroying ourselves.
 
 Thoughts?
 
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Volkodav       7/26/2008 1:29:07 AM
I can confirm that there are aliens, I actually work with one.
 
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