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Subject: Our Super Hornets. How many will we get?
hairy man    4/30/2008 5:50:06 AM
From article in The Australian.. 30/4/08. "It's likely the Orme review will confirm that the best outcome for Australia's future air requirements is a mixture of JSF and Super Hornets. How many and what mix will be the crux of the debate" I believe that the order for 24 FA18E/F consists of 18 2 seaters, 6 single seaters.(Not sure which is E or F.) I would say we will end up with a squadron of each, plus a small amount of Growlers, 4 - 6. Anyone with any better ideas?
 
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Aussiegunneragain       4/30/2008 6:44:18 AM
I'd say we are looking at between the 24 SH's we have ordered and up to 50, with the decision depending on the cost, the capability of early blocks and delivery schedule of the F-35. A full squadron of Growlers would be good, we'd need it to provide support to a 100 aircraft fleet  (its still worthwhile jamming even with stealth aircraft). I also think we should make use of the money saved by purchasing SH's, which will be cheaper than F-35's, by buying 3 or 4 extra tankers to make up for the F-35's inferior range and by getting JASSM integrated so that they can focus on stand-off attack on the first day of war, freeing up the F-35's for the more challenging work.  
 
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DarthAmerica       5/4/2008 9:18:28 AM

I'd say we are looking at between the 24 SH's we have ordered and up to 50, with the decision depending on the cost, the capability of early blocks and delivery schedule of the F-35. A full squadron of Growlers would be good, we'd need it to provide support to a 100 aircraft fleet  (its still worthwhile jamming even with stealth aircraft). I also think we should make use of the money saved by purchasing SH's, which will be cheaper than F-35's, by buying 3 or 4 extra tankers to make up for the F-35's inferior range and by getting JASSM integrated so that they can focus on stand-off attack on the first day of war, freeing up the F-35's for the more challenging work.  


Electronic Warfare makes stealth aircraft even more effective. If looking for a needle in a haystack is hard. Finding a specific needle in a haystack full of needles is even harder.
-DA
 
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newjarheadean    spooky stuff   5/4/2008 10:24:22 PM

IMO; I would think if you were flying around just emitting signals for jamming that would just be a potential calling card.

Any ways the passive sensors should let you know if a bogey is painting or in any other way monitoring you before its necessary to start any jamming right or wrong.

What abt this for stealth, a vibration system that would vibrate some sort of surface just under the skin of the aircraft (due to possible air flow problems if the a/c skin was vibrating) that could be adjusted to match different frequencies. Would this not shatter or deflect waves etc.

One more  a supper dense material (ball of nano material) that would be centrally located and as much of the radar energy as possible would be directed at this ball to be absorbed. Back on the ground crews would place it in a room and (spring the trap) some how release all the stored energy. Cleaning it for the next mission.


 
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Volkodav       5/5/2008 6:56:05 AM
No need to package the jammers with the stealth, have them stand off or come in on a different vector letting the stealth slip through during the confusion. 
 
Even better, have the jammers fly regular aggressive sorties, often without any shooters along, just to wind up and fatigue the defenders.  Then every now and then have a couple of SH's with stand off weapons accompany the Growlers, hang some ARMS on the Growlers and have the F-35's waiting in the wings to ruin the defenders day.
 
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displacedjim       5/5/2008 2:08:10 PM
Putting jammers on LO aircraft can be perfectly reasonable and even be quite advantageous over using a non-LO platform.  The primary advantage of LO in a fighter like the F-22 and F-35 is rarely going to be that it limits the enemy's ability to know the LO aircraft are in his airspace.  The primary advantage of LO in a fighter like the F-22 and F-35 is typically going to be that it limits the enemy's ability to affect our LO aircraft in his airspace.  Similarly, the best sort of jamming support to our aircraft, in fact even to our non-LO aircraft, is often (or at least in combination with other jamming techiques) going to come from jammers that can operate nearer their targets.  Putting the jammers on LO platforms makes them less vulnerable to enemy defenses, regardless of whether the enemy knows they are up there in roughly that direction or even in roughly that volume of sky.  Obviously, they are still vulnerable to some extent, but typically less so than non-LO platforms.  This means they should often be able to operate closer to their targets and therefore often be more effective than a non-LO platform.
 
 
 
 
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DarthAmerica       5/7/2008 3:45:07 AM

IMO; I would think if you were flying around just emitting
signals
for jamming that would just be a potential calling card.


Which is why this is just one of many different EW techniques. Barrage Jamming has some useful applications, but much more sophisticated methods exist including some very descrete. Also, EW involves much more than simply flying around emitting. Very specific TTP's have to be combined with the jamming signals to maximize the effectiveness. As DJ said, with an LO platform, you can get much closer to your target before jamming. In the case of barrage jamming such as you suggested. Your jammer will have to spread it's energy, using a variety of methods, on multiple frequencies. Obviously this reduces the power available on any one freq. Since an LO aircraft can get closer to the threat before being detected, the effectiveness of this type of jamming is greately increased(read up on isotropic radiators) and can be particularly useful against frequency hoping radars in some cases.
 
-DA
 
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Aussiegunneragain       5/7/2008 9:26:41 AM
Apart from agreeing (based on my admittedly lay knowledge of EW) with what has been said about the utility of jammers + stealth, I would add that the way you used them would probably depend on the type of operaton you were undertaking. For instance, before GW1 the Iraqi's knew that the Coalition was going to attack, so the fact that they were subject to blanket jamming for several days before the strikes began didn't give anything away and still allowed for tactical surprise. In fact, blanket jamming could be a good escalation during times of tension, if a country doesn't want to make an actual strike yet. The antagonist would know that their radars weren't working and would know what was to follow if they didn't pull their heads in.
 
 However, I would imagine that if a country was conducting a strike involveing complete surprise (like the Israeli strikes on Saddam's reactor in '81), I'd imagine that it may be wise to leave the jammers turned off until a threat (such as a fire control radar) emerged. It would also be in this situation that an F-35 based jammer would be fantastic, because unlike a less stealthy airframe like the Growler you could fly them along with the strike package without compromising the overall stealth of the package. The Growler is still good mind you, but I'd imagine that the need to have them operating from a different location to the F-35's will be more limiting.
 
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Aussiegunneragain    Did this end up happening?   5/7/2008 10:18:45 AM
This 2006 article say's that all F-18F's after a certain point were to be able to be adapted into EF-18G's. Was this plan carried out and will it apply to F-18F's?

http://www.aiaa.org/Aerospace/images/articleimages/pdf/AA_Aug06_EOE.pdf
 
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Aussiegunneragain    typo   5/7/2008 10:27:07 AM

This 2006 article say's that all F-18F's after a certain point were to be able to be adapted into EF-18G's. Was this plan carried out and will it apply to F-18F's?
http://www.aiaa.org/Aerospace/images/articleimages/pdf/AA_Aug06_EOE.pdf
" href_cetemp=">http://www.aiaa.org/Aerospace/images/articleimages/pdf/AA_Aug06_EOE.pdf
">link


I meant out F-18F's
 
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newjarheadean       5/7/2008 6:31:39 PM

DarthAmerica

Putting isotropic radiators on the ?Air combat rumor board? for feature studies.

Need to sharpen up on all my ACM terms too.

I?ll reengage after spinning up on the subject.

Thanks, CARRY ON , over and out.


 
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