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Subject: Our Super Hornets. How many will we get?
hairy man    4/30/2008 5:50:06 AM
From article in The Australian.. 30/4/08. "It's likely the Orme review will confirm that the best outcome for Australia's future air requirements is a mixture of JSF and Super Hornets. How many and what mix will be the crux of the debate" I believe that the order for 24 FA18E/F consists of 18 2 seaters, 6 single seaters.(Not sure which is E or F.) I would say we will end up with a squadron of each, plus a small amount of Growlers, 4 - 6. Anyone with any better ideas?
 
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gf0012-aust       5/30/2008 10:55:48 PM


 but I humbly disagree. Defining the problem...

"A large offensive UCAV penetrating denied airspace with reliable/secure remote man in the loop capability."

...definitely doable. Secure at the source, middle, end and back.

Regards
-DA


let me reiterate.  NFC.  But I work in this space.  I work on active programs and that includes all of our primary partners.
It's not what you say - not by a long shot.  This is with current gen platforms, current comms and comms packages that aren't even listed.  It's not doable for years - and thats why every major UCAV owner or developer is looking at 8-10 years plus before they consider even putting a combat ready, autonomous squadron in the field.
 
The comms is not secure enough and not sanitised enough at a complex flight and package delivery level to entrust it to complex hostile battlespace space.
 
Over Iraq? Sure, Over Afghanistan? Sure.  Over a rogue European or Asian sophisticat? Think 2015+ 
 
The amount of package support required does not make autonomous precious systems effective enough to field.  Everyone is working on the problem - no one has the complete conceptual answer yet - and commercial technology is not even remotely close irrespective of what they proffer up periodically.
send me an identifiable mil email address and we can talk a little more.  but here?  NFC
 
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nyetneinnon       5/31/2008 1:51:27 AM

 

Over Iraq? Sure, Over Afghanistan? Sure.  Over a rogue European or Asian sophisticat? Think 2015+ 

'Think 2015+'  same goes for F-35?
Can't go wrong with funding full speed ahead with UCAC/S dev, either way?
 
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gf0012-aust       5/31/2008 7:08:26 AM

'Think 2015+'  same goes for F-35?

Can't go wrong with funding full speed ahead with UCAC/S dev, either way?

I should add that most of the ABCA community are looking at way past 2015 - more like 2020-2025,  The US has a lot more at stake to field early - and as the US are early adopters of emergent solutions, we're quite happy to watch and learn off what the early adopters come to grips with....


 
 
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DarthAmerica       5/31/2008 8:41:46 AM




'Think 2015+'  same goes for F-35?



Can't go wrong with funding full speed ahead with UCAC/S dev, either way?



I should add that most of the ABCA community are looking at way past 2015 - more like 2020-2025,  The US has a lot more at stake to field early - and as the US are early adopters of emergent solutions, we're quite happy to watch and learn off what the early adopters come to grips with....



 


It's just the nature of the beast when your obligations and OpTempo are so widespread and frequent.


-DA

 
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Herald12345    Let someone else goof it up first.   5/31/2008 11:26:03 AM




'Think 2015+'  same goes for F-35?



Can't go wrong with funding full speed ahead with UCAC/S dev, either way?



I should add that most of the ABCA community are looking at way past 2015 - more like 2020-2025,  The US has a lot more at stake to field early - and as the US are early adopters of emergent solutions, we're quite happy to watch and learn off what the early adopters come to grips with....


Not to put too fine a point on it, its cheaper for you if somebody else makes the mistakes first and from them you learn.

That is not a bad thing. Unfortunately from the US point of view, by necessity, we are the first to try and its usually our machines which are the first to fry.

C'est la mort.

Herald.


 
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nyetneinnon       5/31/2008 10:38:02 PM










'Think 2015+'  same goes for F-35?






Can't go wrong with funding full speed ahead with UCAC/S dev, either way?






I should add that most of the ABCA community are looking at way past 2015 - more like 2020-2025,  The US has a lot more at stake to field early - and as the US are early adopters of emergent solutions, we're quite happy to watch and learn off what the early adopters come to grips with....






Not to put too fine a point on it, its cheaper for you if somebody else makes the mistakes first and from them you learn.

That is not a bad thing. Unfortunately from the US point of view, by necessity, we are the first to try and its usually our machines which are the first to fry.

C'est la mort.

Herald.



Too true...  Such a valid reason to wait until full testing is complete on fully integrated pre-production model F-35s forinstance, before placing definitive orders and formulating an entire tactical air force plan around them.  The whole program was ass-backwards from the start.  (Ordering (committing to) the full batch of 2,445 first and testing/developing 2nd).  Typical of a Military industrial complex lead solution.  Lesson learned.
 
 HET~
 
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Herald12345    Why don't you read this and get EDUCATED?   5/31/2008 10:43:50 PM















'Think 2015+'  same goes for F-35?








Can't go wrong with funding full speed ahead with UCAC/S dev, either way?









I should add that most of the ABCA community are looking at way past 2015 - more like 2020-2025,  The US has a lot more at stake to field early - and as the US are early adopters of emergent solutions, we're quite happy to watch and learn off what the early adopters come to grips with....










Not to put too fine a point on it, its cheaper for you if somebody else makes the mistakes first and from them you learn.

That is not a bad thing. Unfortunately from the US point of view, by necessity, we are the first to try and its usually our machines which are the first to fry.

C'est la mort.

Herald.




Too true...  Such a valid reason to wait until full testing is complete on fully integrated pre-production model F-35s forinstance, before placing definitive orders and formulating an entire tactical air force plan around them.  The whole program was ass-backwards from the start.  (Ordering (committing to) the full batch of 2,445 first and testing/developing 2nd).  Typical of a Military industrial complex lead solution.  Lesson learned.

 

 HET~


What is the most important part of government procurement????? Politics.

Herald
 
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hairy man       8/15/2008 2:17:42 AM

RAAF likes the sound of the Growler

Mark Dodd | August 15, 2008

THE Rudd Government has sought US export approval for a cutting-edge electronic-warfare aircraft, the Growler, which is capable of performing escort and radar-jamming missions.

Designed for the US Navy, the Growler is a carrier-based electronic warfare version of the two-seat F/A-18F Super Hornet, 24 of which Australia has ordered at a cost of $6.7 billion.

Details of the approach were confirmed yesterday by the aircraft's maker, Boeing.

Canberra has not formally placed an order for the advanced military jet, but wanted clarification from Washington on whether the aircraft could be purchased at a future date.

Boeing's Super Hornet program manager, Carolyn Nichols, said from the company's St Louis head office: "The RAAF has submitted a formal request for release for the Growler to the US Government. The export release of the Growler to Australia is still in review and in progress.

"Boeing does not have a marketing licence to market the Growler to Australia, so we did not participate in US Government top-level briefs that have been conducted on the Growler capability to the RAAF."

Defence analysts told The Australian that about six Growlers would be needed to complement the Super Hornet fleet, the first of which will be delivered to the RAAF in 2010.

So far, the US Navy is the only operator of the Growler, which is designed to accompany F/A-18Fs on attack missions, performing radar jamming and other electronic warfare tasks.

Any agreement would come under the US Foreign Military Sales protocol covering advanced military equipment.

The Growler made its first flight in 2006. It has a maximum speed of Mach 1.8 (1900 km/h) at 12,000m.

The US Navy has ordered 57 Growlers.

There was good news on the controversial order for the Super Hornets, with a promise the first aircraft would be delivered within budget and on time.

Boeing's Canberra-based head of business development, Rick McCrary, said: "There has been ... no increase in the contract value."

The Super Hornet acquisition came as a surprise when it was first announced by Howard government defence minister Brendan Nelson in December 2006. The aircraft was purchased to fill a gap between the retirement of the ageing F-111 fleet andthe arrival of the so-calledfifth-generation stealth Joint Strike Fighter, expected to arrive in 2014.

Australia is seeking to buy 100 Joint Strike Fighters for a cost of about $16 billion.

 
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stingray1003       8/19/2008 3:11:54 AM
First step I suppose.  Atleast they are seriously going to have a look.
 
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Volkodav       8/19/2008 4:53:31 AM
Bad news guys, the Growler, if ordered, will replace F/A-18F airframes one for one.  That is to say if we order 6 Growlers the order for F's will be reduced from 24 to 18.
 
I was hoping they would be additional, taking the order out to 30 airframes total and perhaps making the retention of No.6 Sqn a possibility.
 
Another hope was that some consideration would be given to buying or leasing a squadrons worth of E's instead of blowing more money on HUG.
 
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