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Subject: Should Australia raise a MARINE Battalion.....
BLUIE006    12/25/2006 1:36:12 AM
There is an gap in Australias defence capability that I have never understood ....... WE have do Marines.... we have alot of water .. I propose making a Marine battalion.....similar to Royal Marines 1000-2000 strong I know people are going crap on about staffing issues etc etc If we could raise the numbers ...do you think it would be useful ??
 
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Aussie Digger       12/26/2006 8:22:17 AM

1000-2000 men is more like 2-4 battalions.

Does Australia have any naval infantry at the moment, or are your ship boarding parties et al armed sailors?

I don't think you need a marine battalion personally, you already have a commando battalion.  But I expect it would be a good idea to as standard train one of your light role infantry battalions in the RAR in amphibious landings.  Give them a 4-6 week course in it after their infantry course or something.  Running off a landing craft or jumping off a rigid-raider and assaulting up a beach isn't exactly rocket science, but it would be handy having a battalion well versed in it.  You are getting a new LPD or two arn't you?



Our battalions ARE trained in amphibious operations. Did you not read my last post?

3RAR and 5/7RAR conducted an "amphibious assault" in the Oecussi province during Interfet in East Timor, with the force preceeded by specwarops and clearance divers "clearing the path"... We DO have Amphibious capability RIGHT now and our specwarops (and I include RAN Clearance Divers in this group) are MORE than capable of operating in an "SBS" type role.

The problem with all these ideas is the Government. Government directs ADF to provide specific capability options and provides a level of funding to achieve that. These options are based on what Government perceives based on strategic "need".

Whether ADF needs to develop a capability or not is irrelevant if it conflicts with Government's wishes...

ADF can provide demonstrable Amphibious capability NOW. The projects I mentioned earlier WILL increase this capability.

Feel free to discuss it by all means, but I really fail to see the urgency of such a capability in light of the capability gaps in ADF under it's FUNDED level of capability...

 
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BLUIE006       12/26/2006 8:37:09 AM

Beach & Shore Reconnaissance

One of the main roles of the SBS is to survey and recon the beaches and shoreline prior to amphibious landings by main forces . Not only must they report on the numbers and disposition of any nearby enemy, they must also survey the approaches to the beaches to ensure they are suitable for a landing. .

SBS divers are also highly trained in explosives and demolitions which gives them the capability to clear any mines and obstructions from the beaches.


Maritime Counter Terrorism (MCT)

As the  naval special operations unit, The Special Boat Service would have the responsibility of responding to the threat of terrorism against any  maritime interests.Rescuing hostages on oil rigs, cruise ships and cross-channel ferries. When one considers the prospect of mounting a rescue operation against a oil rig from the freezing cold seas below, one can speculate that the SBS sometimes has a more challenging task on their hands than their SAS colleagues!


Drug Interdiction

The capabilities and methods they have developed for the MCT role make the SBS uniquely suited to boarding potentially hostile drug-running cargo ships on the high seas. On such missions they have worked side by side with  customs officials


Anti-shipping tasks

A task of the SBS involves sabotaging ships and harbor installations. Canoeists, swimmers or divers infiltrate the target areas, sometimes with the assistance of mini-subs and swimmer delivery vehicles. Once on target, the operators attach magnetic limpet mines to the ship's hulls. The fuses on the mines are time delayed to enable the SBS saboteurs to withdraw to a safe distance.

 


Sabotage

Special Boat Service commandos are trained to infiltrate deep behind enemy lines and carry out sabotage missions against vital enemy installations such as ammo dumps, bridges and communications installations. Movement into the target area could be by boat, submarine, Klepper canoe, helicopter or by HALO parachute. Their expertise with waterborne also makes them the perfect choice for attacking coastal installations such as enemy ports and radar stations.


Covert Operations

Perhaps more so than the higher profile SAS, the shadowy SBS are would be suited for so called 'black ops' : deniable operations that would be too controversial for official recognition.  Intelligence Services (SIS), such as ASIS, may occasionally have a use for men with the qualities of an SBS operator. Such men might temporarily 'leave' the military to work for a front company of the ASIS. Whilst precise details of the activities that an SBS man 'on holiday' may perform are unknown, one can speculate that they include:

  • Inciting unrest and revolution amongst the populations of hostile countries
  • Assisting foreign 'freedom fighters'
  • Terminating 'undesirables' or 'dangerous' individuals (anyone from national leaders, to nuclear scientists, to enemy agents)
  • Secretly training foreign militaries
  • Ferrying secret agents or sensitive materials in and out of countries
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
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Aussie Digger       12/26/2006 10:14:16 AM
Nice cut and paste job...
 
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DropBear       12/26/2006 6:39:49 PM
Nice cut and paste job
 
Meeeeeeeeeeoooooooooooow!!!
 
 
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BLUIE006       12/26/2006 8:16:28 PM
Why thank  you ....   i thought  it  was  good too ...  notice  the  seemless edges
 
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gf0012-aust       12/26/2006 9:18:34 PM
 
and the actual link.....
 
 
 
 
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southern cross       12/26/2006 9:25:14 PM

Beach & Shore Reconnaissance


One of the main roles of the SBS is to survey and recon the beaches and shoreline prior to amphibious landings by main forces . Not only must they report on the numbers and disposition of any nearby enemy, they must also survey the approaches to the beaches to ensure they are suitable for a landing. .


SBS divers are also highly trained in explosives and demolitions which gives them the capability to clear any mines and obstructions from the beaches.






Maritime Counter Terrorism (MCT)


As the  naval special operations unit, The Special Boat Service would have the responsibility of responding to the threat of terrorism against any  maritime interests.Rescuing hostages on oil rigs, cruise ships and cross-channel ferries. When one considers the prospect of mounting a rescue operation against a oil rig from the freezing cold seas below, one can speculate that the SBS sometimes has a more challenging task on their hands than their SAS colleagues!






Drug Interdiction


The capabilities and methods they have developed for the MCT role make the SBS uniquely suited to boarding potentially hostile drug-running cargo ships on the high seas. On such missions they have worked side by side with  customs officials



 


Anti-shipping tasks


A task of the SBS involves sabotaging ships and harbor installations. Canoeists, swimmers or divers infiltrate the target areas, sometimes with the assistance of mini-subs and swimmer delivery vehicles. Once on target, the operators attach magnetic limpet mines to the ship's hulls. The fuses on the mines are time delayed to enable the SBS saboteurs to withdraw to a safe distance.


 






Sabotage


Special Boat Service commandos are trained to infiltrate deep behind enemy lines and carry out sabotage missions against vital enemy installations such as ammo dumps, bridges and communications installations. Movement into the target area could be by boat, submarine, Klepper canoe, helicopter or by HALO parachute. Their expertise with waterborne also makes them the perfect choice for attacking coastal installations such as enemy ports and radar stations.






Covert Operations


Perhaps more so than the higher profile SAS, the shadowy SBS are would be suited for so called 'black ops' : deniable operations that would be too controversial for official recognition.  Intelligence Services (SIS), such as ASIS, may occasionally have a use for men with the qualities of an SBS operator. Such men might temporarily 'leave' the military to work for a front company of the ASIS. Whilst precise details of the activities that an SBS man 'on holiday' may perform are unknown, one can speculate that they include:


  • Inciting unrest and revolution amongst the populations of hostile countries
  • Assisting foreign 'freedom fighters'
  • Terminating 'undesirables' or 'dangerous' individuals (anyone from national leaders, to nuclear scientists, to enemy agents)
  • Secretly training foreign militaries
  • Ferrying secret agents or sensitive materials in and out of countries

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 



There is not one thing there that could not be performed by one or more of the SASR, 4RAR, TAGs, or Navy CDTs.
 
 
 
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Aussie Digger       12/26/2006 10:27:33 PM


There is not one thing there that could not be performed by one or more of the SASR, 4RAR, TAGs, or Navy CDTs.

I agree completely with this.

The idea that we should create another special forces unit, when the commander of Australian special forces has repeatedly stated how difficult it would be to expand our current force due to the size of the base (ie: normal army) is ridiculous. The very fact that a "direct entry" scheme for special forces had to be created (unique in the world to the best of my knowledge) should be evidence of that. The fact that not ONE of the persons recruited under this scheme were capable enough for SASR service (at least initially) should be another.

4RAR (Cmdo) is based largely around water operations, both as an insertion method and for particular operations, of the sort you'd like to see an "A" SBS type unit conduct.

IF you think Navy could generate the staff required to man such a unit, perhaps you'd care to enquire as to the status of RAN's manning at present with AMPTF...

 
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Arty Farty       12/27/2006 1:07:01 AM
With the amount of water we have and what we might need to be doing in SE Asia; training for an amphibious operation is essential. However to raise another force (sf or conventional) is not needed.

Should be more amphib training like this:
 
http://www.defence.gov.au/media/download/2006/May/20060503/20060427ran8114832_036_lo.jpg" width=450 border=0 longDesc="Excercise Croix du Sud">
 
 
 
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Yimmy       1/10/2007 4:39:53 PM
Just an extract from Janes I found, and which somewhat confused me given it contradicts what I was told in this thread:

"Australia has considerable commitments across the western and southern Pacific as well as to her north and while she is increasing the scope of her naval forces she has yet to train troops in amphibious operations although the 4 RAR (Cdo) may come close: there is already an amphibious troop within each SAS Squadron."

http://www.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/news/jasf/jasf070109_1_n.shtml

 
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