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Subject: Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??
DropBear    6/13/2005 4:53:55 AM
In response to lacrobat's comment wrt "Why not cut the JSFs entirely?" I am interested to know how many of you believe the F-111, F-18 and Hawk127 are a complete waste of time, resources, money, training, funding, manpower etc etc etc... What would you spend the allocated funds on otherwise? You know my views, what are yours...
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Nichevo    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??   6/15/2005 8:14:03 AM
Well excuuuuuuuuse me! Guess I stepped in a koala trap on that one! ;< ;< ;< Speaking from US perspective of course. Long may you be satisfied with your arreangements.
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gf0012-aust    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??   6/15/2005 10:25:16 AM
ferk me, I take 4 hours off to go to the movies and walk back into a schitt fight? what the ferk is going on with you blokes?
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DropBear    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??   6/15/2005 10:35:37 AM
Well, I would have quite long ago after a certain person didn't bother answering, however, my anti-woffle/naff radar sniffed out a few anti-Raafies and The Puss had me mystified at one stage. Don't worry, I have since taken my fizzy-make-feel-good tablets and am now a calmer more subdued Bear ;)
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gf0012-aust    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??   6/15/2005 10:49:12 AM
"Don't worry, I have since taken my fizzy-make-feel-good tablets and am now a calmer more subdued Bear ;)" for one brief moment I wondered whether I had walked into an Oz version of the Abbott and Costello skit "Who's on First??"
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fall out    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??   6/15/2005 11:16:21 AM
what movie you see mate? wouldn't mind seeing that movie with for real sex scenes in them, be interesting (did i say stimulating? ;)) for sure! ;)
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gf0012-aust    GF's relaxation night at the movies.   6/15/2005 11:27:40 AM
Went and saw "Mr and Mrs Smith" Then my daughter wanted to have a yack about all the flaws in the armoury side of the film (she's started to learn Personal Protection work) So we had an hour of ripping the movie apart on fire and movement issues. Good flick though. Light entertainment, and I wouldn't say "no" to Mrs Smith. ;)
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gf0012-aust    RE:GF's relaxation night at the movies. - oops   6/15/2005 11:36:14 AM
the comment was meant for FO's question on what flick I saw tonight. /hijack off
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fall out    RE:GF's relaxation night at the movies.   6/15/2005 11:50:40 AM
neither would i say no to mrs smith, SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO hot!!!!!!!!!! ;)
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lacrobat    RE:lacrobat   6/15/2005 8:09:41 PM
"With the 35th TFW USAF, the Camberras flew 8% missions and had 16% total successful BDA." USAF BDA in Vietnam. a credible source indeed... Meanwhile the fact that the F-111 cost had run up so far forced Aust to commit a 3rd Bn to Vietnam (to get the US to sweeten the deal). Again RAAF failure has to be paid for by the real services.
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lacrobat    RE:Should we abolish the RAAF combat fleet??   6/15/2005 8:25:46 PM
"The HMAS Hobart was attacked by US fighters, funny that. Three missiles fired at widely spaced intervals is not exactly a saturation missile attack. Aegis was designed to defeat scores of sea skimmers launched by soviet bombers. The AWDs are less likely to be used to their full potential than the JSF. The AWDs shouldn't be used for NGFS either. I don't think it's worth risking a 2 billion dollar ship to shore batteries, thats something for the ANZACs to do." You asked for an example of a RAN ship operating alone attacked by missiles, you got one. Had it been an AWD, it would have downed the fighter after the first launch and probably nailed the missile too. Whilst NGS may well be a task for ANZACs, there may not be one about, but even if there is one or more about, having them perform NGS under a capable AAW ships protection is a far better thing. "So the Korean and Vietnam wars don't count as deployments and I suppose all they did their was fly at airshows?" Look up Korea and tell me when it ended, Vietnam, our fighters did nothing, our strike a/c did little and the failure of RAAF procurement (F-111) forced the Govt to send another Bn of troops to keep the yanks onside. (the F-111C programme began to rapidly increase in price. From the initial estimate of $100 million in 1963, the costs were $142 - $205 million in 1966; $237 million in 1967; $266 million in 1968; and $300 million in 1969. By the end of 1969, $210 million had already been paid by the Australian Government. By 1967, the Australian Government found it increasingly difficult to keep up with the payments. US President Lyndon Johnson's administration was pressuring the Australian Prime Minister Harold Holt to expand the Australian commitment to the conflict in Vietnam by sending a third battalion. Revelations in Secret Cabinet documents declassified 30 years after the event, show that the Holt government's decision to send the third Australian battalion was influenced by a need to renegotiate the payments for the F-111, and not by for genuine military reasons. ) Again the combat services pay the price for RAAF failure. Savings - how will it work? by deleting an entire service admin structure and the long range strike task. Can army do air defence? put the fighters under command of the air defence regt, they don't do CAS (Just like the RAAF now), RAN JSF does. "I'm not sure what the figures are now, but in 1999 the combat fleet of the RAAF was only around 16% of the total defence budget. Thats good value for the most flexible and most deployable force we have." ROTFLMAO - count the ACTUAL combat deployments in the last 50 years and then tell me its good value, then tell me its a good idea to cut the RANs AWDs (that WILL go in harms way) to make sure the RAAF has enough airframes to maintain its airshow schedule.
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