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Subject: America-Turkey relations
ilpars    7/2/2004 4:43:47 AM
A good summary for America-Turkey relations. Americans in Turkey By William J. Walsh The Weekly Standard | June 30, 2004 As the NATO summiteers descend upon Istanbul, the city of Constantine, Justinian, Mehmet the Conqueror, and Süleyman the Magnificent, one hopes that in between drinking sweet apple tea and noshing on baklava while looking over the Golden Horn, the American diplomats, military men, and bureaucrats will raise their eyes and look at the vibrant, interesting country around them. Turkey and the United States share tremendous interests, but their relationship has recently hit some shoals, though not yet run aground. Both countries must take a step back from day-to-day annoyances and take the long view. Turkey could be a major ally of the United States in the Middle East, along the lines of Japan or Korea in Asia, or Germany in Cold War Europe; and the United States represents a way for the Turkish Republic to integrate more deeply into the West in parallel (or even as an alternative to) its efforts to join the European Union. The last major U.S.-Turkish diplomatic venture, the negotiations to allow the Fourth Infantry Division to invade Iraq from Turkish territory, ended in pointless acrimony and has led to frustration on both sides. The Turks have felt relatively marginalized in American decision-making in Iraq, and Americans have nursed grudges against the Turks. American officials must not allow the failure of negotiations to poison the relations between us, as the French foreign ministry's machinations have poisoned relations between Washington and the Elysée. In this instance, tactical amnesia may be called for, given Turkey's strategic and ideological importance in the ongoing war on terror, and its underlying project of discrediting radical, totalitarian Islamic-flavored ideology. The Turks, by contrast, must resist the urge to pander, for domestic political reasons, to the elements of the AK Party's constituency who might sympathize with the Islamist critique of politics. They should do as much as possible to raise the profile of those religious and political thinkers within Turkey who are attempting to reconcile secular government and Muslim belief. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has stated on numerous occasions that this is precisely the task his party has set itself, creating a "Muslim Democrat" model along the lines of Europe's Christian Democrat model of the early and middle twentieth century. So what can be done to improve relations? The United States can afford to be generous, and should be. First, Turkey desperately needs economic assistance, but has no desire for more IMF or World Bank "aid" of the type which has worsened their plight. After meeting President Bush, Erdogan told the press, "I proposed to President Bush that they take us into NAFTA." We should take him up on it through a bilateral trade agreement, or as the first step in creating a transatlantic free-trade area. Not only would such an agreement boost Turkey's frail economy but it would explicitly demonstrate the friendship and solidarity between the United States and a Muslim country at a time when our enemies paint us as implacable enemies of Muslims. Our second gift should be military aid. Not only is the Turkish military a critical institution in its domestic affairs, but the Turkish Armed Forces are the second largest force in NATO after the U.S. military. The Turkish general staff has a short wish-list of equipment and financial assistance: utility and navy helicopters, ship-development programs, a regional missile defense system, a cancellation of some debts, and resumption of the Foreign Military Financing program cancelled in 1999. What should we ask of the Turks in return? Economic liberalization, privatization, continued campaigns against corruption and police abuse, and a constructive engagement with Iraqi Kurdistan, which given its secular, pro-Western outlook is potentially Turkey's best ally among its Muslim neighbors and a potential guarantor of the integrity of Turkey's eastern border. Moreover, if Turkey wishes to influence the Iraqi government, the Kurds are their natural interlocutor, as they will be the strongest voice for local and regional control, as well as minority rights. (Turkey maintains an interest in the rights of the Iraqi Turkmen, who are actually ethnic and linguistic Western Turks, not relatives of the Türkmen of Central Asia.) Despite our recent quarrels, the United States and Turkey would both reap tremendous gains from closer cooperation. Is there reason to be optimistic? Perhaps. President Erdogan was, after Tony Blair, the most important head of government to attend Ronald Reagan's funeral in Washington. Erdogan and President Bush are both statesmen with abiding religious faith and a keen sense of the enemy we both face from Islamist terrorists. Even in the run-up to the NATO Summit, terrorists have set off deadly bombings in Ankara a
 
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Pseudonym    If they have nothing to hide why is illegal for them to talk or write about it?   11/4/2005 6:19:12 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/10/10/wturk10.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/10/ixworld.html A senior European Union official has underlined concern for Turkey's human rights record by joining the acclaimed author, Orhan Pamuk, for lunch in Istanbul. An Istanbul court provoked outrage last month when it charged Mr Pamuk with violating laws that forbid description of the mass killings of Armenians during the last days of the Ottoman Empire as genocide. The author, who is due to appear in court on Dec 16, could spend up to three years in prison if found guilty of "insulting Turkey's national dignity". The charges were filed after Mr Pamuk told a Swiss newspaper in February that "a million Armenians and 30,000 Kurds were killed in these lands and nobody but me dares talks about it". Olli Rehn, the EU's enlargement commissioner who lunched with Mr Pamuk, hinted that negotiations with Turkey over its entry to the EU might be interrupted if the author were to be convicted."
 
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Pseudonym    RE:America-Turkey relations; Pseudonym   11/4/2005 6:28:46 PM
"Hmm. Let's see. My Grandfather is a Kurd. And I think I know Kurdish history much better than you do." Obviously not. "Turkey had Kurd Presidents, Kurd 4 star generals in the army. What kind of opression is this." President's who legally could not speak their OWN LANGUAGE LEGALLY until what was it? 92' I believe? "In the 1915-1922 Turk-Armenian war; Armenian bandits killed most of the population of his village which includes his 2 bigger brothers. Do I think bad about Armenians? No why should I. That was very sad affair but it was war and the people that did it are not living any more. War and genocide is 2 very different things." Splitting the hair mighty thin. Anyways, since it is illegal to speak about it in Turkey, I tend to think the worst case is the likely scenario. IF THERE IS NOTHING TO HIDE WHY IS IT ILLEGAL. "Turkey do not oppose any Kurdish leadership in Iraq. General Turkish position is we are against any new country on the map. Simple isn't it." Actually the article, if I can find it again I will post a link, was a declaration that SPECIFICALLY said they did not want an Autonomous Kurdish State on their border, for fear of reinforcing Kurdish Separatissts. "By the way in your accusation of an entire people to be something; I figured that you are a racist or at least a culturalist. Am I right?" Did I accuse all the people? No I accused a NATION, not individual people. You see a NATION is made up of a Government, which in this case is ACTIVELY HIDING FACTS. Perhaps you are the racist? Am I right? You cannot respond to it without an attempt to discredit the writer because you by now should have done a little research and learned the truth. But since the truth does not sit well with whatever particular agenda you are pushing you just ignore it. That is called Ignorant Hypocrisy.
 
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Pseudonym    Different article, mine was from 2002, this one 04' and a different PM, close enough, ill keep looki   11/4/2005 6:32:49 PM
http://english.epochtimes.com/news/4-1-28/19064.html "WASHINGTON – Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said again Tuesday that his country opposes greater autonomy for Kurds in neighboring Iraq. Mr. Erdogan spoke in Washington ahead of his Wednesday meeting with President Bush. Mr. Erdogan told a gathering at a Washington research center, the Center for Strategic and International Studies, that Iraq could be destroyed if Kurds gain significant autonomy. He said the territorial integrity of Iraq has to be sustained and that he opposes any Iraqi settlement based on regional or ethnic considerations. Similarly, Mr. Erdogan emphasized the importance of maintaining central government control of Iraq's oil wealth and not ceding the northern Kirkuk fields to the Kurds. Turkey opposes autonomy for the Kurds in Iraq, arguing that it would encourage similar moves by Turkey's Kurdish minority. Despite differences with the Americans over Iraq, Mr. Erdogan stressed the strong ties between Turkey and the United States. He appealed for more American foreign investment and said he hoped businesses would use Turkey's strategic location as a springboard for operations in central Asia and the middle east. The Turkish prime minister repeated his determination to win European Union approval for a start to EU membership negotiations by the end of this year. He also spoke of his desire to reach an agreement that would reunite the divided island of Cyprus, which will become an EU member in May. Turkish-U.S. relations were soured ten months ago when the Turkish parliament refused to permit American troops to use Turkey as a base from which to attack Iraq. Relations have steadily improved since then and close ties between the Turkish and U.S. military have been restored. Mr. Erdogan stressed that Turkey remains a key U.S. ally and is very supportive of the U.S.-led campaign against terrorism."
 
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Pseudonym    Later all   11/4/2005 6:35:55 PM
Pars, I already did all the research and thoroughly debunked this for Paul1970. Who then totally ignored everything a month later and acted as if it didn't exist. I'm not doing it again. Go look around the Armed Forces section, but I think the thread was erased. I'm not going to waste my time looking around again for all the articles
 
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Pars    RE:Some answers to Pseudonym   11/4/2005 8:44:54 PM
Unlike you, I have both Kurdish and Turkish blood in my veins. And I am proud of my heritage. And believe me, I know the history of my people very well. Unlike your biased knowledge, saying that there was a genocide in Turkey is not a crime. But insulting is a crime and it has money panalty not prison. Mr. Pamuk wanted to have Nobel literature prise. He thought that if he talks against Turkey, he could get enough sympathy to win. He is a very good writer by the way. I read several of his books. In http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/48-167.asp you clearly wrote " What kind of sick sadistic people are you. " So you insulted people. It is not very clever to lie in a mailing list. Everything is written you know. Ottoman Archive is open to all serious researchers including Armenian ones. In fact they came and researched it. Paradoxiacally it is the Armenian archives that is not open. Contrary to common knowledge, Ottoman Empire had kept records about everything. They invented the modern bureaucracy and nothing has ever done in the Empire without documentation. My source is Ottoman archives. There are also population records in them province by province. Every Ottoman citisens religion is also recorded in them for funeral purposes. A Christian and a Muslims funerals are different. As you can see proving the truth is very easy by following offical documentation. If you want to do it; you can.
 
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