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Subject: Thanks for the terrific Sabbath Turkey!
Hugo    1/15/2006 5:49:09 PM
Another facinating encounter with the local Turkish population today. After going to Church this morning, my wife and I decided to visit the neighbouring town. Whilst there we walked up to the local church which is famed for its beauty. Inside we went and took a look around before sitting down to prayer. Once inside, we heard a number of youths walk in, two young men and two young women. Shouting and laughing very loudly, we simply assumed them to be rude. Then, whilst praying, they walked into our section of the Church and started yelling and playing about the Church. My wife turned around and asked them to be quiet because people were praying. One of the girls called back at her and my wife asked again to be quiet. One of the young men turned around and responded to my wife "I don't want to hear a another word from you!" in a threating tone. When my wife and I were ready to leave, we walked past them as we walked down the stairs inside the Church, I first followed by my wife. The young man who had threatened earlier stared at her threateningly. I stared back at him. He noticed and asked "What? do you want something from me!?" I said to him "Yeah, some respect - this is a place of worship." He kept saying to his friend "let's give him one, let's give him one!" I looked at him and being angry, responded in English that he had no respect. He spoke something incoherrently and said "I'm Turkish so let's speak Turkish". I thought to myself 'you look like a Turkey' and walked away, leaving the Church. Bad enough that they were loud, even worse that they were disrespectful to worshipers but then to threaten people inside the Church is simply sacrilige. In my less responsible days I would have invited him outside to pound him. I have a question and it's why youth of Turkish extraction feel like they, non-Christians, can walk into a Church of all places disrespect the place and then threaten Christians inside without one ounce of respect for anything, expect to be welcomed into general society. Unfortunately, today was just one of many unfortunate experiences that I've had with Turkish/Islamic youth. But today was my near my breaking point. Scum like that should be deported. Turks do everything they can to leave their country for a better life elsewhere and then, when they get there, they treat the locals and their society like dirt. And you wonder why Europe wants nothing to do with you! If you don't respect other cultures, societies and faiths then leave and don't return!
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kane    RE:Don't   1/15/2006 5:59:07 PM
you can't blame all the Turks for this event.This can happen anywhere in world. i accpet Turkey is not the safest and modernest place in world.But if you have good relations with Turks they can do anything for you. This event is a scary one and i suggest you not to mess with that kind of people because sometimes bad things can happen. if you can tell location and a description of those guys i can make a better comment. Turks are very nationalist and because of their families some children can become enemy of other religions but in other countries they arrest muslims in mosques!!! info-Turkey is not an islamic contry :D
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Hugo    RE:Turks   1/16/2006 2:28:25 AM
The event happened in Germany, the Turk was an immigrant visiting a German Church and threatening worshipers in that Church. The guy looked like he spent half an hour on his hair that morning and was otherwise (at least in his opinion) stylish. I'm not saying all Turks are that bad and it might surprise you to know that I have a small number of Turkish friends. However, as far as Turks in general go, this has, unfortunately, been an experience all too common. I believe Turks to be terrible parents, incapable of raising their children in Western societies without the external rigidities of an islamic system. Like I said, I'm sure that arsehole wouldn't dare behave that way in a Mosque but he couldn't care less about a Christian or his faith. Typical traits of many (not all) Turkish youth in Germany are; - aggressiveness in public - a continual urge to spit in public - yelling and shouting in public instead of conversation - an urge to kiss one another upon greeting (mano et mano here) - driving ty cars with huge spoilers with the stereo's volume on max while playing some sort of islamic music that might as well be being screamed from a minaret - harrassing German girls - hanging around at train stations in large numbers - outlandish hair styles often involving bucketloads of gel and hair colouring Most of the above are little more than irritating. The violence is disturbing. All together, it spells a complete lack of upbringing or even a hint of culture. Without culture it is no suprise that they do not respect others or the societies within which they live.
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Pars    RE:Turks   1/16/2006 5:20:52 AM
In Islam, you have to respect all religions and all holy places. These people you are referring are Vandals which you can see in any group of people. I have been in USA and I have met with Turks living there. None of them had the traits that you have mentioned. The Turks living in Germany always complain that they are treated as 2nd class citizens by Germans. The things that you referred to be might be a rebellious behaviour to the system that they believe do not treat them fairly. This behaviours are unacceptable to me and to Turks that I know whatever the reason is. You can not see these kind of acts in Turkey.
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Hugo    RE:Pars   1/16/2006 6:17:13 AM
I wish I didn't see Turkey when i see this behaviour but unfortunately it is just too common to dismiss as a mere minority. Turks are second class citizens in Germany because they choose to reject German culture and it's values. Italians, Greeks, Croatians, Spanish and others who actually number more than the Turks, don't choose to behave in the same manner that Turks do and they are first class citizens and treated with respect. Turks are themselves to blame for their rejection and many Germans have had experienced like the one I had yesterday and worse. People are getting fed up and I was ready to make a stand yesterday that I hope many Germans themselves make.
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Schackleford    RE:Turks   1/16/2006 6:29:13 AM
"Typical traits of many (not all) Turkish youth in Germany are; - aggressiveness in public - a continual urge to spit in public - yelling and shouting in public instead of conversation - an urge to kiss one another upon greeting (mano et mano here) - driving ty cars with huge spoilers with the stereo's volume on max while playing some sort of islamic music that might as well be being screamed from a minaret - harrassing German girls - hanging around at train stations in large numbers - outlandish hair styles often involving bucketloads of gel and hair colouring" Same thing for young Turks/Muslims in Denmark (2% percent of our population is Muslim, 4/5 Turks) To add a few things to the list: - Spiting on and otherwise desecrating tomb stones at Christian grave yards - Violent muggings by gangs numbering by the dozens (frequently involving knives which were unknown prior to the arrival of Turks/Muslims) - Trying to kick a pregnant school teacher in the stomach - Throwing rocks a two Jewish rabbi, causing cuts and bruises and possibly a mild brain damage. Their imam later assured the press that the kids would be taught only to be violent towards ISRAELI Jews!!! - A huge increase in gang rapes. An imam later went on national TV and explained that as long as Danish girls didn't wear hijabs, Muslim men had the RIGHT to rape them. I could go on all day like this just with my memory...
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TheArmchairCmd    RE:Turks - please   1/16/2006 6:52:35 AM
I don't think our Tyrkish forum members should be held accountable for what other people living under different circumstances do. Some people of our nationalities don't behave well either when they're abroad, and I don't want to defend them or be held accountable for their actions as well. The pitch of the debate, remember...
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kane    RE:European Turks!!   1/16/2006 7:17:05 AM
Many Turks living in europe went there to work.They were poor and uneducated and they love rap music.There are also very religious men(turk) in europe.
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Hugo    RE:Thanks for the terrific Sabbath Turkey!   1/16/2006 9:28:34 AM
Germany, Denmark, I have friends in Australia who say the same thing about the Turkish community there.. no doubt this is common behaviour amongst Turks world-wide. If we are to believe the Turks on this forum, this is only a minority. I say bullsh!t. It's time to get the message across to Turkish immigrants that they either respect the place or go back to their beloved Turkey.
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FJV    RE:Thanks for the terrific Sabbath Turkey!   1/16/2006 1:12:45 PM
This has nothing to do with Turks in particular. It has EVERYTHING to do with decades of tolerating unacceptable behaviour out of some misplaced sense of guilt and political correctness. For decades in the Netherlands when any minority steals something, he isn't punished harshly for stealing. Instead some leftwing softie pats him on the head and tells him that he can really see his point, because of discrimination disadvantaged youth, etc. Often the thief is out of the police bureau faster than the person reporting the theft. Now it does not take a genius to figure out what happens when an thief steals and completely gets away with it. He steals again only this time more!. Now what happens when a thug uses violence and completely gets away with it? He uses violence again only this time more! I'm willing to bet that if you treat ANY group in a society treated this way will end up with a large number of criminals. We should stop taking $hit from criminals that succesfully manage to get away with it by using their ethnic background as an excuse. In the Netherlands this attitude is still going strong. You can see by the reasons given for several gang rapes of 13 to 15 year old girls by Antillian gang members (12 persons, ages 12 to 17): - They didn't get sex education at school. - Their knowledge from sex and man women relations they got from watching porn - They had a disadvantaged ethnic background. - They grew up in problem families - They grew up in single parent families - They have a low intelligence - They've had a disturbed sexual developement Everything is to blame for the crime except the criminal of course. I think they knew damn well what they were doing, because it doesn't take a genius to figure out rape is wrong. I think they did it, because they were getting away with it. I'm thinking they might still get away with a low punishment (slap on the wrist) given our justice system. I'm even thinking that I will be many more times pissed off in the future at our justice system because of such attitudes. PS Next time take a picture with a mobile phone of these guys and contact the local Turkish Mosques. Many Turkish Mosques in the Netherlands are trying to get a dialogue going with the churches and will adress the behaviour you've described. Turkish mosques have a vested interest in good relations between Turks and Westerners. I guess this is the same for Germany. The Turks aren't that bad (except for their Turkey can do no wrong attitude).
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Pars    RE:Hugo   1/16/2006 1:36:14 PM
Let's get honest. Western European countries needed cheap labor. So they did want educated people. So they get the poorest people from Turkey to work in their factories. They did not treat them as equals. They did not try to assimilate them into their society. They expect Turks to worl there for some time and then return to their countries. They created a minority class (let's admit it) which has far less civil rights than citisens of the country. The Turks there behaved as exacctly as how an educated 2nd class people would behave. And now you are blaming Turkey and Turks for that. The problem you have is a result of short-sighted policies of your past governments. UK ans USA do not have problems with Turks as they have good immigrant policies unlike other Western countries. Besides Germany also have same problems with Greek and Yugoslavian immigrants. These problems are not as much pronuanced because they have lower numbers. I know this because of several articles and films about Turks in Germany. The problem is also disturbing Turkey as several anti-Turkey terrorist organisations both PKK and Islamists) have been organised in Belgium, Netherlands and Germany. Collecting money (usually by force) and recruiting terrorists. And these countries do very little against them. A joint organisation between Belgium, Netherlands, Turkey and Germany can solve this problem.
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