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Subject: Titan
Titan    11/10/2005 3:43:14 PM
Well I do feel ashamed and I do believe it was genocide. And I'm sorry for all the suffering we put the Armenians through.
 
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Pars    RE:to shackleford   12/22/2005 2:22:04 PM
You are showing wikipedia as your source. Anyone can write an entree in wikipedia. I can just now add an entree. You really do not know the diffreance between a reliable source and an unreliable one do you. In fact I give many proofs. The offical population counts before and after WW1. I showed how you can not not just destroy an offical paper without leaving proof that you did because of offical documentation numbering system. According to these numbers, Turks and armenians aprox. lost equal numbers in the Armenian-Turkish conflict. So I proofed that It is easy to find out the proof in ottoman archives. I told you that Ottoman archives are open to every researcher including Armenian researchers while Armenian archives are open to nobody. Yes I can proof that there were no genocide; there was an ethnical war. If you have a reliable source that show otherwise, let's discuss that source. Wikipedia is not a source. Open a real encyplopedia and look at the references to that topic. These referances are sources. Find that referances and compare to them to other referances which have conflicting data. This is how you research. For example I have read Armenian eye witnesses records to better understand what really happened not to be limited by Turkish datas. Which I may repeat again never says that Turkish army that attacked them. They all say it was Kurdish tribes they attacked them. You can not ignore such an evidence.
 
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Pars    RE:to shackleford   12/22/2005 2:22:22 PM
You are showing wikipedia as your source. Anyone can write an entree in wikipedia. I can just now add an entree. You really do not know the diffreance between a reliable source and an unreliable one do you. In fact I give many proofs. The offical population counts before and after WW1. I showed how you can not not just destroy an offical paper without leaving proof that you did because of offical documentation numbering system. According to these numbers, Turks and armenians aprox. lost equal numbers in the Armenian-Turkish conflict. So I proofed that It is easy to find out the proof in ottoman archives. I told you that Ottoman archives are open to every researcher including Armenian researchers while Armenian archives are open to nobody. Yes I can proof that there were no genocide; there was an ethnical war. If you have a reliable source that show otherwise, let's discuss that source. Wikipedia is not a source. Open a real encyplopedia and look at the references to that topic. These referances are sources. Find that referances and compare to them to other referances which have conflicting data. This is how you research. For example I have read Armenian eye witnesses records to better understand what really happened not to be limited by Turkish datas. Which I may repeat again never says that Turkish army that attacked them. Most of them say it was Kurdish tribes that attacked them. You can not ignore such an evidence.
 
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Pars    RE:Titan; the case.   12/22/2005 2:26:32 PM
There is nothing shameful about the case. The law is being followed. You can argue that the law is wrong and must be changed; then I will agree on that. You can not say it is shameful to follow the law. By the way another person who is sued for a similar reason has been found not quilty. The reason given is "It is an opinion not an insult."
 
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Pars    RE:Shackleford - Titan   12/22/2005 2:36:17 PM
Noone ever said that. In fact Turks do lots of wrongs. Being so loyal to Ottoman Empire was one of them as Ottoman Sultans after Mehmed II never saw themselves as Turks. Ottoman state was ruthless yes. But it was equally ruthless to everyone. If anyone revolt against them, they crushed it well, ruthlessly. In fact the biggest Ottoman massacre in history was against Turks in 17th century. Ottoman State killed thousands of Turks during the infamous Jelali revolts. By the way Titan. The people believing democracy and freedom of speech are not a minority in Turkey. But appearently you are not one of them. As you are responding my points; not by your own points but by your dislike.
 
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kane    RE:hihi   12/22/2005 3:32:58 PM
another good answer from PARS.
 
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jastayme3    RE:Titan   12/23/2005 1:01:34 AM
Genocide???? get real. Genocide requires one side to be weak and no fault. ------------------------------------------ On that ground no act of genocide has ever taken place as their is always some fault on the victims side(after all even missing a car payment is a fault)
 
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Schackleford    RE:to shackleford   12/23/2005 5:30:32 AM
"You are showing wikipedia as your source. Anyone can write an entree in wikipedia. I can just now add an entree. You really do not know the diffreance between a reliable source and an unreliable one do you." "If you have a reliable source that show otherwise, let's discuss that source. Wikipedia is not a source. Open a real encyplopedia and look at the references to that topic." If you could point out where wikipedia is wrong, please do so. Wikipedia is not a confusing mess of opinions and bias. I use it so extensively, because it is a handy tool for consulting pretty much any subject while in front of your PC. It is rapidly approaching the standards of any established encyclopedia. The proof can be found here: http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog/science/2080887.html But I will still give you the chance to explain to me precisely why wikipedia is unreliable or using inproper methods. Untill that time comes, I will continue to accept wikipedia's story of the Armenian Genocide as a the first genocide in human history, callously organized and systematicly carried out by the Turkish state. I will also refuse to accept any excuse about "ethnic war" or "rebellion" by the Armenians. It could never justify the extermination of an entire people. Turkey needs laws limiting the Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Press in order to suppress any dialogue or research into this subject. That is not the behaviour of an innocent state!
 
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kane    RE:genocide to Turks   12/23/2005 6:02:34 AM
ottomans didn't killed armenians but they were killed by other ethnic groups such as Kurds. Stalin killed many Turks(and other russians) serbians killed bosnians(surely a genocide) Kurds killed thousands of turks in northern iraq What about these???
 
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Schackleford    genocide by Turks   12/23/2005 9:30:15 AM
"ottomans didn't killed armenians but they were killed by other ethnic groups such as Kurds." Turks organized and carried out the genocide of Armenians. Read the wikipedia articles that I have already provided in my previous posts. And PROVE me wrong, rather then repeating the same claims over and over. "Stalin killed many Turks(and other russians)" I never said that the Turks were the ONLY people that have ever carried out a genocide, I said that they were the FIRST people to ever carry out a genocide. It is quite possible (I would go so far as to say likely) that Hitler and Stalin were inspired by the carefully planned and organized system that the Turkish state created to exterminate the Armenians. "serbians killed bosnians(surely a genocide)" No, actually not. What happened in Bosnia doesn't yet qualify as a genocide. Why? Because no one has proven that the murder of Bosnians were a systematic and organized effort by the The Republic of Yugoslavia(The trial against Slobodan Milosevic is still on going). What the Serbian break-away republic in Bosnia did, could probably be termed as a genocide, although a small one in comparison to the Holocaust or The Armenian Genocide. I believe that what happened in Bosnia was a tragedy, but that it was the work of militias, guerilla groups and the para-military forces of the break-away republics, not an organized effort by the Republic of Yugoslavia or any other state in the region. "Kurds killed thousands of turks in northern iraq" A MINORITY of Kurdish Marxist terrorists, operating WITHOUT the consent and support of the Kurdish people in general, killed thousands of turks in a series of unrelated and unorganized events. If you can prove that it was the goal of PKK to eradicate all Turks in the region, that they were carrying out a plan and not just a random outburst of violence, and that they operated with the consent and support of the Kurdish people, then we have a genocide. Untill then, The Armenian Genocide, carried out by the Turkish state, remains the only genocide in the region, and the worlds first genocide.
 
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kane    RE:genocide   12/23/2005 11:11:13 AM
"Kurds killed thousands of turks in northern iraq" A MINORITY of Kurdish Marxist terrorists, operating WITHOUT the consent and support of the Kurdish people in general, killed thousands of turks in a series of unrelated and unorganized events. If you can prove that it was the goal of PKK to eradicate all Turks in the region, that they were carrying out a plan and not just a random outburst of violence, and that they operated with the consent and support of the Kurdish people, then we have a genocide. Untill then, The Armenian Genocide, carried out by the Turkish state, remains the only genocide in the region, and the worlds first genocide." it was to destroy the Turkish population in northern iraq(mosul-kirkuk) i know to many people lived tese events. a guy came out and said "serbians were taking us to a place and they were executing us.i hid myself under a corpse.they brought others by truck(for two hours)"this is probably true(serebnitza) and i saw something like this on a video. Serb soldiers took bosnians. a soldier shouted YALLAAAH and they killed them.they were very happy while doing this and they were laughing.(serebnitza) i have a friend and he is a bosnian.his family had hard times during the war. croitans destroyed the mostar bridge(on a video again) i saw too many videos about this genocide.and i do not hesitate while using the word "genocýde" go and write serebrenitza in google.thats my source + my friend's family. +those videos+many other turkish sites
 
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