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Subject: A message to all Westerners and Turks
Volkan the Turk    10/9/2005 10:30:38 AM
I am a Turk who grew up in Australia, but i am a Turk. And my children will be Turkish. And i have completely integrated into Australian western culture, without losing my identity. I was elected the captain of my school thru peers, i got the top mark in the university examinations, and i am part of many cultural and charitable organisations. But along side this i am also the president of turkish student assoication and many other Turkish culture activities. I will not lose my Turkish identity because i love my country, i love my culture, and i love my people. Futhermore, thru out thousands of years our forefathers sacrificed their lives, without thinking twice, so that we may remain Turkish. I will not insult them by forgetting about their sacrifice. When it comes to us being to nationalistic, there is no such thing. I would die for my country, if it was in any threat at all. Without thinking twice. I will spend my whole life conserving our culture and language. What can be to extreme is ignorance. And dont confuse this with patrotism. Ignorance is idiots on this forum calling for a war with Turkey. Ignorance is claiming all those racsist comments being exclaimed about Turkey by Europeans in this forum. With attitudes like that no wonder the Euro-Turks have a hard time integrating. You guys claim there is a culture gap, but looking at the comments made on this forum by the Europeans, i am even more proud to be Turkish. Atleast, even though we are obviuosly biased, we still have a common humanity in us. Do you honestly think that your country is so fantastic that we want to leave our beloved homes and come to you cold, crowded, foreign nation? Even though we know the racsism, cold heartedness, and bigortory that lies ahead? Of course we dont you uneducated idiots! We do so, so that our children will have better lives. What did you do to deserve a better life? what the F**K right do you have to look down upon anyone you is different and poor. You were born into your lives! And if you were born in Turkey or any poor nation, how would u feel, working day and night, and still not being able to give you kids 1 tenth of what some lazy bigot in a European welfare state can give their kids? Have some humanity, have some brains. We are muslim, so bloody what? Does that mean all Christians are good? No! Does that mean all muslims are good? NO! You all look on TV and see muslim terorists, but terorism is increasing as it is being more and more advertised and muslims are being more and more prosecutes againsts. Plus since when have Turks been terorists? Plus no one mentioned terorism when Aremenians were excuting and bombing our embassies? No one mentioned terorism when muslims in Azerbajcan were being killed. No one mentioned terorism when Cyprus was cleansing Turks. Dont get me wrong. IM not religious at all. And im sure alot of biased has been in the pro-Turkish media which i am influenced by. BUT the difference is we can realise this. We arent blind enough to think we are all holy and mighty and the foreigners want our land. Think of it from the other persons view. In Australia, Arabs are the ones prosecuted against. And likewise, they seem to underperform and are involved in alot of crime. In nation surveys, Turks in Australia seem to be among the top few most successful ethnicities along with the Asian countries. This shows, that even though Turks came here much later then Germany, we can succeed if the country allows us too. Id like to relay a final message to all my Turkish kindred, never lose your Turkishness. Never lose our language or culture. We belong together. No matter where in this world we may travel, never forget that tens of millions thru out history have given and devouted their whole lives so that we may keep our culture and our heritage. Never forget you are who you are because of them. Meet and integrate, but never lose and forget. And a final message to the west, get over it. Forget what people's race or religion is. Keep you own culture. If you only accepted foreigners as people and not as some different lower race, they wouldnt be in crime or have less opportunities. Racsism is a thing of the past. You can say all you want, but not accepting a country into Europe, even though you need us, even though if you reject us into the EU your going to have to allow migration from Africa and the MIddle east at increasing rates to substitute your declining population (im doing an honours in Economics so i know what im talking about). So your going to have to take in people from different cultures anyway. It might aswell be Turks, who are a mix of east and west culture. If anyone would like to ask or talk to me my email is volkanism@hotmail.com
 
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WeAreCured    RE:A message to all Westerners and Turks   10/21/2005 7:43:48 PM
I'm an American, born and raised. My mother's family is one of the oldest families of the US. I am a direct descendant of the president of the 3rd Continental Congress, just before the founding of America proper. He is also the only American to ever be held in the Tower of London and he signed the Treaty of Paris which ended the Revolutionary War. However, my father is Turkish. He came to America on a scholarship from the Turkish government when he was 17, in 1962. He graduated from N.C. State University with a degree in Chemical Engineering and a Masters in Textile Chemistry. He returned to Turkey to fulfill his scholarship conditions and served in the Turkish army for 3 years, playing basketball and soccer for the Turkish national team. He returned to America and played professional soceer for 4 years, playing against Pele and winning a national championship. He then got into the textile business and married my mom and started a family, which is where I come into the picture. I am proud to be an American and I would die for my country. I am also proud of my Turkish heritage and if Turkey ever broke out into war with any nation other than the US, I would go and fight. I suppose that's what a lot of you mean when you say Turks just have it in their hearts to fight, but I think almost any descandant of a powerful nation would feel the same about their roots. Anyway, I wish we could all just realize that we are all brothers in the human race and the world at large. Why does everyone want war so much. War proves NOTHING. All it proves is you can die. Eventually, the nation will still be there after the ceasefire, she will just have lost many sons and daughters for no reason. There are no wars worth fighting since WWII, and let's hope it remains that way.
 
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scraw    RE:A message to all Westerners and Turks   11/2/2005 1:07:51 AM
Do you honestly think that your country is so fantastic that we want to leave our beloved homes and come to you cold, crowded, foreign nation? Apparently.... you are here after all...
 
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Clausewitz    RE:A message to Volkan the Turk   11/13/2005 8:10:22 AM
The majority of europeans here in Germany and elsewhere is convinced that nobody needs Turkey as a EU-memberstate. After the mulim riots in France and the problems in the Neherlands there will be no chance for a true EU-membership for Turkey. All 25 memberstates would have to say yes. That will never happen. And I am glad of about it. We simply do not need people like you. You can live your identity back home. If you come to a country to stay you have to become part of that country. And uneducated people - and most migramts are uneducated - are simply not needed in modern economies. Why should anyone pay taxes for social benefits of migrants? Noone asked them to come so there is no responibility to pay them. If someone will become part of my country I am fine with him as long as his loyality belongs to his new country. True muliculturealism just leads - in the long run - to civil war. Such cicil war is unneccessary and would be a waste of life. Neither France nor Britain nor Germany or other European countries owes theirs muslim immigrants anything. It is the migrants job to give away their old loyality to earn any solidarity. The US is a good example. After one or two generations all migrants feel as US-citizens. Their loyality belongs to the stars and stripes and to the contitution. I guess and hope your grandkids in Australia will have to learn in school where Turkey is located on the globe. And you should accept that.
 
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Clausewitz    RE:A message to WEAreCured   11/13/2005 8:30:07 AM
Wow, good news for the airlines. If anyone who got some roots anywhere would fight for the country of heritage there would be a lot of air trafic to sell. What about the roughly 100 million US-citizen with german roots. All would be german soldiers? With the wish to fight against there native american brothers and sisters with a diferent country of origin. What a nonsense! I would have to fight for Austria, Germany, Russia, Poland and Lituvia. And by the way. The Korean War and the Vietnam war were part of the cold war. You really think that this war was not worth fighting for? With - including china - roughly 100 million dead victims of communist rule? O.K. I lived near the iron curtain. Not you. So I have to forgive you this nonsense phrase. And neither the first gulf war nor the war on terror seems to be unneccessary too. At least I am cured from people like you.
 
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Pars    RE:Clausewitz. Germany asked Turks to come.   11/13/2005 1:59:24 PM
"Noone asked them to come ". Germany asked Turks to come and work at low level jobs at Germany. You may not need them now, but you did need them in the past. Unites States, England or Australia do not have any problems with immigrants from Turkey. Germany did have. And it is not only Turks. Germany has also problems with Greek and Yugoslavian immigrants. In my opinion, Germany might have bad immigrant policies.
 
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Clausewitz    RE:Clausewitz. Germany asked Turks to come - to Pars   11/14/2005 8:51:50 AM
Well, in the 60ies and the beginning 70ies big business asked some turks to come for uneducated work. They needed them to battle our unions call for more wages. Now they got new machinery and the "guest workers" are unemployed and be paid by our welfare system. Most - not all - third generation turks stay in their community. Many of them do not talk german very well (they read turkish papers and vies turkish TV)and are not educated very well. The average german did call the turks into the country. So - in my view - big business should pay for them. And - by the way - noone asked them to stay. The deal was: you got paid for your work and leave later. That did not happen, because these turks lived better in Germany than in Tukey. Even unemployed. Many germans - me included - wish they will integrate into our society and become germam or they should leave the country.
 
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tjkhan    RE:A message to all Westerners and Turks   11/14/2005 3:29:50 PM
WeAreCured: "Id like to relay a final message to all my Turkish kindred, never lose your Turkishness. Never lose our language or culture. We belong together. No matter where in this world we may travel, never forget that tens of millions thru out history have given and devouted their whole lives so that we may keep our culture and our heritage. Never forget you are who you are because of them. Meet and integrate, but never lose and forget. And a final message to the west, get over it. Forget what people's race or religion is. Keep you own culture. If you only accepted foreigners as people and not as some different lower race, they wouldnt be in crime or have less opportunities. Racsism is a thing of the past. You can say all you want, but not accepting a country into Europe, even though you need us, even though if you reject us into the EU your going to have to allow migration from Africa and the MIddle east at increasing rates to substitute your declining population (im doing an honours in Economics so i know what im talking about). So your going to have to take in people from different cultures anyway. It might aswell be Turks, who are a mix of east and west culture." Isn't there a fundamental "disconnect" between these two paragraphs? In one you are saying to fellow Turks "never forget" and in the next you are saying to the west "Forget what people's race or religion is." Strikes me that this is one of the fundamental problems...you want to have your cake, and eat it too. As an Australian, of Indian/Irish/English/etc, etc heritage, I have to say the argument that, arab muslims, are being discriminated against in Australia just bores me senseless. Some of the strident critics who declare their "arabness", praise the jihadists in Iraq and Afghanistan, and then wonder why the bulk of Australians are a little uneasy at the moment. Just remember also that of recent years over 100 Australian have been blown up by extremists....and in each case those extremists have done their acts in the name of Islam. Australia is an extremely tolerant society, but, there are limits.
 
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Pars    Definition of a Turk for a Turk.   11/14/2005 5:44:16 PM
<< Isn't there a fundamental "disconnect" between these two paragraphs? In one you are saying to fellow Turks "never forget" and in the next you are saying to the west "Forget what people's race or religion is." >> There are no contradiction in these paragraphs as Turks never define themselves or others by his race or religion. Genetically Kirghis Turks are Nordic while Tatar Turks are Mogols. There is an Orthodox Turkish church in Turkey with also several very different Islamic sects. According to Turks as long as someone feel himself as Turk; he is a Turk. He did not even have to speak Turkish. There is not a small Turkish population in Australia. And as I know Australian government is happy with them.
 
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tjkhan    RE:Definition of a Turk for a Turk.   11/14/2005 8:58:38 PM
Pars: "There is not a small Turkish population in Australia. And as I know Australian government is happy with them." It's not a question of the Australian Government, its the Australian community. Turks have been accepted for decades. As to your other point, go back and read Volkan the Turk's thesis. I am not arging that Volkan the Turk is talking in terms of race or religion, what I am saying is that you should not move to another country, accept the benefits of that other country and yet swear allegience, to the former homeland. In essence it is a two way street. An immigrant is entitled to expect tolerance and understanding from the host country's government and citizens, and the immigrant must reciprocate by becoming part of the new countries community.
 
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Pars    RE:Definition of a Turk for a Turk.   11/15/2005 5:10:33 PM
As long as both countries are allies; there is nothing wrong to have allegiance to both countries. Turkey-USA-Australia are allies and will be allies for a very long time.
 
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