Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Russia Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: USA's Friends
Mike    5/5/2002 1:20:50 AM
Who are USA's friends right now? I mean Friends, not just temporary allies. Russia? Israel? China? EU? UK? Leprechauns? I mean do we actually have friends? We don't even pay UN dues! Does anybody actually love us? Who?
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: 1 2 3 4   NEXT
Phoenix Rising    RE:USA's Friends   5/5/2002 3:12:44 PM
Cynics regarding international politics might say that no country ever has "allies," only partners of convenience. All the talk about "shared democratic values" is only a euphemism for how many obstacles stand between rational cooperation on the part of both actors. Fortunately, I'm not quite that cynical. I'm more cynical than optimistic, but nonetheless, not that cynical. I think there is a major shakeup in the international system going on right now. European politicians are riding and inflaming nascent anti-Americanism as a path to power, facilitated by American support for Israel, which allows them to exploit and inflame anti-Semitism as well. This will cause a gradual schism between Europe and America, when we start to realize that our shared values are being overshadowed, marginalized, and undermined on various issues. In the meantime, Asia is gradually shaking off totalitarianism and conceding that democratic and capitalistic systems are the most effective form of government in this day and age, and probably for the foreseeable future of mankind. There are far fewer barriers to strategic interaction with Russia and India now than there have been. There is also a shared problem with Islamic extremism, and both India and Russia would love to have American backing, implicit or explicit, in their own battles with this phenomenon. There are different shades of friendship. Israel is probably the most unconditional ally of the United States; skeptics would say it is only because of our FMF to them, but I believe there is more to it than that. For the moment, many American WWII soldiers are still alive, those that were in their late teens and early twenties in 1945, those that remember walking into Auschwitz and Treblinka expecting to find weapons factories. Take a tour of the Holocaust Museum in D.C. sometime and look at some of the pictures and statements taken of American soldiers' first encounters with the camps and the Survivors. Europe never really thanked us for saving their bacon ... but the Jews did, and still do to this day. The generals from that era are all dead, but the soldiers were much younger, and a lot of them are still alive. Britain, Canada, and Australia should also be considered friends of the U.S. Blair was willing to take a hit to his domestic popularity to help out America; that's one of the essential marks of friendship, as far as I'm concerned. Germany and Japan would love to become economic powerhouses to rival us, but there's nothing in that that prevents them from being friends of ours in other arenas. Japan has good reasons for not contributing more to the War on Terror than they have; their constitution is actually incredibly pacifistic in structure, dating back to when we basically wrote it for them after WWII. Japan values its political and economic ties with the U.S. enough that I might qualify them as a friend, but it would depend on how deep and altruistic a relationship has to be before you call it "friendship." How do you define a friend? Is a friend someone with whom you share major national interests? If so, then we have friends everywhere you look. Is a friend simply someone who won't stab you in the back whenever they can get away with it? If so, then we probably have many friends. Is a friend someone who will put some of your interests above some of his own? If so, then the list shrinks. Is a friend someone who is truly independently concerned about your well-being and will help you in need without expecting anything but friendship in return? If so, then the list shrinks even more. --Phoenix Rising
 
Quote    Reply

Spetsnaz    RE:USA's Friends   10/25/2002 5:39:03 PM
Australian dude going way back to WW2
 
Quote    Reply

RF    Americans and Jews?   10/25/2002 10:23:27 PM
" For the moment, many American WWII soldiers are still alive, those that were in their late teens and early twenties in 1945, those that remember walking into Auschwitz and Treblinka expecting to find weapons factories." What Bullcrap! Americans never liberated those camps, Red Army did! "Europe never really thanked us for saving their bacon ..." Typical arrogant rant - USA did not save nobody's bacon (u probably mean Jews by this) but its own! USA did not enter the WW2 because it wanted "to save Europe from death and destruction." This is just bullcrap propaganda they're still feeding us. "but the Jews did, and still do to this day." This is ridiculous, Israel and USA are close allies not because of the WW2, but because of the Middle East situation. As soon as USA won't need oil (or less) Israel is toast! (I've been told these by my friends from Israel) Furthermore, if you look at UN votes - USA oftenly took on the Whole World, and sometimes but not always was supported by "friendly" criminal states like Israel or some Uzbekistan! And no, Mike, USA does pay its UN dues, but it pays as much as Japan does, not as much as it's supposed to pay according to its GDP! So, yeah, Mike, only Orcs are our friends.
 
Quote    Reply

NewGuy    RE:Americans and Jews?   10/25/2002 10:55:36 PM
"What Bullcrap! Americans never liberated those camps, Red Army did!" The US Army did *indeed* liberate several concentration camps in nazi Germany. My grandfather visited one of those camps just a few short days after it was liberated by his division. What history books are you reading, any way???? NewGuy
 
Quote    Reply

RF    Exactly   10/26/2002 3:04:51 PM
"The US Army did *indeed* liberate several concentration camps in nazi Germany. My grandfather visited one of those camps just a few short days after it was liberated by his division. What history books are you reading, any way????" What an amateur u r! Americans liberated only the camps in West Germany, such as Dachau! The worst of the death camps, like Auschwitz, Treblinka, Majdanek were all in Poland! And yes, "those" were liberated by the RED ARMY! So, I don't know, maybe it's enough for you already to read books a la "Americans defeated the Nazis and saved the world from death and destruction."
 
Quote    Reply

Spetsnaz    Spetsnaz to RF   10/28/2002 8:56:01 PM
WHATS YOUR PROBLEM? YOU NEED TO SIT DOWN AND CHECK YOUR SELF INTO A HOSPITAL WARD cheers
 
Quote    Reply

NewGuy    RE:Exactly...not.   10/29/2002 12:42:09 AM
Ok RF, answer this: If the US had *not* entered the Second World War, what would have happened? Can you guarantee that the Allies would have won? Would Russia have held out without the massive (and I do mean massive) aid give by the US durign the war? Would Britian alone have been able to successfully invade Hitler's "Fortess Europe"? What might Japan have been able to do if it was not countered by the power of the US in the war? Why was the US called the "Arsenal of Democracy" by numerous nations in WWII? BTW, why would it matter that only the "worst" camps (as you claim) were libertaed by the Russians -- does that somehow negate the fact that the US Army liberated a number of those camps? Your implication that it does is illogical and rather "amateur" of you. I also contest your claim that the "worst" camps were only in East Germany, show us all some solid proof of that statement, or we will simply ignore it as a falsehood. I look foward to seeing some rational replies to these questions from you. NewGuy
 
Quote    Reply

mustavaris    RE:Exactly...not.   10/29/2002 8:18:21 AM
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.jsp?ModuleId=10005144 There you can find where the camps were and a lot of other information on other things related to the Holocaust. Draw your conclusions from that. But for me it doesn´t matter how many camps each side liberated, they had common goal and enemy and they did what they could. By way or another. What comes to American friendship.. For Finland it was a matter of money. Officially USA condemned Soviet invasion and gave us a lot of sympathy, but refused to sell arms or basically anything useful. We got private support from USA and their public opinion supported us, but at that time they sold engines, food, military equipment etc to the Soviet Union and they were used against us. And for those who have little knowledge of history- I am talking about Winterwar, not that following war where we fought beside (but not allied with) Germans. BTW we were not part of Marshall Plan and got no money from outsiders after the war. Not from the West nor from the East. I see the USA´s participation in WWII (in Europe)as a mixture of many things.. they had to stop Nazis before they become too powerful (realpolitik), they had to help their allies/friends like GB and I also believe that many took it as a fight for democracy against tyranny... Americans had so many good reasons to intervene that you can ignore one or two of the most important ones and still they would have intervened. Never to mention Hitlers genious declaration of war..
 
Quote    Reply

American Kafir    RE:USA's Friends   10/30/2002 8:18:26 AM
>>Who are USA's friends right now? I mean Friends, not just temporary allies. Russia? Israel? China? EU? UK? Leprechauns? I mean do we actually have friends? We don't even pay UN dues! Does anybody actually love us? Who?<< Why do people let their TVs make them stupid? The United Nations OWES the United States money, not the other way around.
 
Quote    Reply

American Kafir    RE:Americans and Jews?   10/30/2002 8:22:55 AM
"What Bullcrap! Americans never liberated those camps, Red Army did!" >>The US Army did *indeed* liberate several concentration camps in nazi Germany. My grandfather visited one of those camps just a few short days after it was liberated by his division.<< My grandfather did as well, and he was in the 3rd Armored "Spearhead" division, right behind the tanks in the Signal Corps.
 
Quote    Reply
1 2 3 4   NEXT



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics