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Subject: Will anyone ever defeat the American army?
sooner    1/24/2004 2:13:23 PM
Will anyone ever defeat the American army?
 
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displacedjim    RE:China or Russia or North Korea surely will..Vietnam and Somalia already did..   8/27/2004 2:15:30 AM
MiddleKingdom: " Displacedjim
 
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thenenea    In a full scale war or on political scale?   8/27/2004 7:59:51 AM
I think that a full scale war with a nation that might challange the US is a very low possibility. In terms of military might maybe China and Russia would pose a serious threat. But even if the US would most probably win a war with one of these countries it wouldn't be a "clean war" and it would leave the army thinned down and the US exposed to its other enemies. Such a scenario would only lead to nuclear war in the end and in this case there would be no winner. Only a few survivors trying to rebuild in the post atomic world. On the other hand, in a small scale war the situation is pretty different. The US had trouble in the past because of the cold era type organisation and training of its troops and although victorious in battle they've lost support of the public at home wich meant almost certain political defeat. And as wars are no longer fought for anihilation but political victory that meant that the US were in fact defeated in Vietnam and Somalia. Please don't flame me for this post. It's my first post here and it's my own opinion on the matter, not a "fact" or "general thruth".
 
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T800m101    Middle Kingdom   8/28/2004 7:01:10 PM
Excuse my language but in the words of Eric T. Cartman, "you're a en faggot dude."
 
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oldman    RE:Will anyone ever defeat the American army?   8/29/2004 2:49:39 AM
It seems to me that most of the post don't address the question seriously. There is some confusion between battles being loss as oppossed to wars. Or even individual units being defeated as opposed to the "army". To make things clear, I'll say the U.S. military. The U.S. military has never loss a war. Many battles, without a doubt. And it will be the same way in the future. Atleast the forseable future. What about Viet Nam? Viet Nam wasn't a "war". Viet Nam was a battle of the Cold War. Which the U.S. undoubtbly one. It could be more accurately described as WW3. This new struggle can be most accurately described as WW4. If the U.S. was to lose, the whole world would lose too. So as long as the U.S. exist, it can not lose. The American people and her military are one.
 
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Ozamist    RE:China or Russia or North Korea surely will..Vietnam and Somalia already did..   8/29/2004 11:45:13 PM
i have one thing to say to all of you we cannot know untill it happens and if it would usa would win the battel over china but ultimately loose because it`s other enemys would strike at the same time like the cowards they are usa vs china is a joke it would cost many lifes beacause those in the middel kingdom dont mind using gases and toxins instead of fighting like men we would destroy china fast it would not hardly pose a threat they have low quality armor low quality air low quality nukes low quality anything whens the last time oyu seen china building ther own things hrmmm never hahaha chinas military is full of young kids 16yearolds what could they do scaired 16 year olds that would make anyone laugh
 
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thenenea    Really dissapointed...   8/30/2004 3:30:28 AM
Seems like a lot of people simply forget that this is supposed to be a civilized discussion, where everyone presents his arguments and listens to the other's arguments. I thought we were discussing military capabilities, not boasting "patriotic" nonsense like "the army is the people" or "if US looses, everybody looses", "China has 16 year old boys.... poor armor, poor nukes...". Can you please tell me what would you consider a "good nuke" ? One that burns an entire state instead of just one city ? There are no "good nukes" and "bad nukes". 1 in every 4 people on this planet is Chinese so could you tell me how do you intend to win "a quick victory" over China? By raising the whole country to the ground ? What about Hong Kong? Raze it as well? They have a 2,5 million professional army (and trust me, at least 40% of it is just as good if not better than some of the branches of the US Army). And btw, the ABC of military strategy was written by Sun Tzu who was a Chinese.... "If US looses everybody else looses" - well, I don't think so. We've spent 50 years under communism because of the US failure to dominate the negotiations with USSR at the end of WW2. So for me the US already lost a war and we're still here. Also, to consider Vietnam "a battle not a war" is somehow simplistic. On this path of logic you could also consider WW2 "a battle". Vietnam War was ended by "peace with honor" but it was a major failure if not a defeat.
 
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oldman    RE:Really dissapointed...   8/31/2004 2:39:29 AM
You don't seem to understand the difference between a battle and a war. Korea, Viet Nam and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan were all battles in the Cold war or more accurately, World war three. You need to look at the bigger picture. In retrospect, Viet Nam may just have been a strategic victory for the U.S. It pitted the China and the U.S.S.R. against each other for influence over Viet Nam and went a long way in hollowing out the Soviet economy( along with Afghanistan ) This allowing President Reagan to finish the U.S.S.R. off. As far as war with China, I believe it would be mostly an economic and information war. The Chinese economy needing the U.S. far more than vice versa. The U.S. controls the sea lanes and has a vast superiority of nukes would rule out any invasion of U.S. soil. Not to mention millions of armed citizens. If the U.S. would ever garner the resolve it had in WW2, no one would stand a chance.
 
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thenenea    Methaphorically speaking...   8/31/2004 8:02:40 AM
.... yes, they were "battles" of WW3. But usually you don't end a "battle" through a peace treaty. :) Yes I agree that probably the US won't be invaded, unless the Chinese hackers don't find a way to disable the US missile command (and so far the position of the US military networks is not so good...). That would be the biggest problem and I think it's the US that will have a problem if that happens. Try imagining the impossible: what if all the computers in the US would suddenly "die" ? What would happen to all the high tech intelligence based strategy? Conventional war without computers or "smart" wepons. All the thousands of billions thrown out of the window. And China would overwhelm the US forces by 15 to 1 if not more. As for the "armed citizens" of the US... come on man, are you for real ? Only in the comics of the 50's the US Resistance would smash the "Red Invasion". No amount of "gun lovers/collectors" from any US state could match a motorised Chinese division with a "special" regiment (btw, the Chinese Special Forces regiments are just as good as the US Rangers if not better in some aspects... hand to hand comes to mind...) as a secondary. Think a little bit: if China mobilizes all its men there would be a personal guard for every US citizen! I agree though that the US mobilization in WW2 was spectacular and it was was the lack of bond between the American people that did a great disfavor in Vietnam. Probably the US would win the war with China eventually but not without a high cost in human lives and equipment. And remember that this is a different era than WW2 when all the US factories were relatively safe on the North American continent. Do you think that North Korea, Iran would just sit and watch ? The most interesting thing is that if that ever happens it's Russia who would become the best friend of the US.... :)
 
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vonky    RE:Will anyone ever defeat the American army?   9/1/2004 3:57:34 AM
The answer is Yes.An empire can't live forever.It'll take years (maybe) for Russia to recover but once it happens, US army will be no.3 in the world (after Russia and China).Russia already has new ZRK S-400 which beat american "patriot" by all standards.
 
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   RE:Chinese communists?   9/1/2004 12:37:11 PM
China, especially the industrialized islands and its Eastern coast, is in many way more capitalist than the United States. Check out the Forbes ranking on free enterprise (Hong Kong and Taiwan are in first and second place, respectively). The politics of individualism and democracy are catching up as well. As a previous poster said, America is an idea, more than a nation. And that idea (capitalist democracy) will inevitably conquer the globe. War in the future will not be fought on any open field by pairs of opposeing armies, but in board rooms by lawyers in Italian suits. The primitive reactionary holdout that is the Middle East is little more than a bump in the road, the last major obstacle to the global revolution. And on Sept. 11, they only accelerated the time table that is their already sealed fate..
 
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