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Subject: russian millitary muscle
ace    12/7/2003 6:30:42 PM
the russian army has fallen in millitary strenght drasticaly since the sovier union broke up, but their army is still quite credible. they have got numbers and technology. the t 96 has proven to be quite a tank. air power wise, the russians currently mainly use mig 29's, su 30's su 35's have introduced su 37's and are developing su 47's and mig 1.42's. all of which ,if you visit some of the web sites, are quite amazing fighters. their main bombers are the tu-160's . they can carry 40,000 kg, at a max speed of 2,200 km/h for a non refuling distance of 12,300 km and are capable of mid air re fulling. All russian misslies now have a firing range of over 60 degrees, which alowes them to lock on and fire way before the plane faces the enomy head on
 
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wait.wat?    RE:russian millitary muscle (sooner)to:wait wat?   2/21/2004 1:22:33 PM
>>I am sorry I may have underestimated you. You are very updated on the world around you.<< Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? As for the rest of what you have posted, could you clarify? Are we talking about Iraq's oil or Russia's?
 
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sooner    RE:russian millitary muscle (sooner)to:wait wat?   2/22/2004 8:18:56 AM
No sarcasm, just a compliment. And yes, the Iraqi oil.
 
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boris the romanian    RE:russian millitary muscle (sooner)to:wait wat?   2/26/2004 7:07:52 PM
I'm new to this thread, but I've noticed that you were commenting on Russian fighter aircraft versus European aircraft and just HAD TO add a few comments. When it comes to air superiority a skillfully flown Su-37 would have a really tough time against an F-22 and MAYBE an F-35, but that's about it. It would utterly annihilate F-15s, F-16s, EF-2000s, Rafales, Tornados, etc. The Su-37 has an excellent radar coupled with a very effective IRST/EO complex and great armament. It can carry up to 14 AAMs. This includes R-73M2s (without peer in the West), R-77s (as accurate as the AIM-120 only longer ranging) and R-27 (while many people consider this missile to be obsolete, nothing could be further from the truth, as in its ER model it has a range of about 130km and the ET is a 100km range true "fire and forget" missile, with some capability against "stealthy" aircraft flying supersonic, if you see where I'm going with this...). The aircraft combines this warload with great flight performance and astonishing agility. The fuel load is also superb, making for a great endurance. The Rafale is inferior not only in its performance but also in agility and air-to-air payload and sensors (lacking IRST). The Typhoon is superior to the Rafale and has its advantages over the Su-37 (eg. supercruise) but the Meteor isn't as long ranging as the R-27ER or the later models of the R-77. The Typhoon is no match for a well flown Su-37 in a dogfight. The F-15 doesn't stand much of a chance either in a BVR engagement or in a close-in fight, and the same goes for the F-16. All in all, the Su-37 is the best 4++ generation fighter around (when it comes to the air to air role), and it's also quite a bit cheaper than either the Typhoon or Rafale (though more maintenance intensive).
 
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displacedjim    RE:russian millitary muscle (sooner)to:wait wat?   2/26/2004 7:55:12 PM
Well then it sure is a good thing for us the pathetic piece-of-crap Russian economy can't support training most of their pilots more than 100 hours a year, so the odds of running into a skillfully flown Su-37 are just about nil. Of course, first Russia would have to build some, so actually the odds are even less that Russia will have any significant number of Su-37s to give to their few skillful pilots to fly. But then, none of that is particularly meaningful, as no NATO country has any reason to start a war with Russia anytime soon and Russia is in no condition to attack NATO. If Russia exported the Su-37 in large quantities to a third-world nation that had a well-developed pilot training program and a cadre of skillful pilots that could take full advantage of the Su-37's capabilities, then... wait, no, that ain't happening, either. But the Su-37 is a real kewl jet, though. Threads like these are like Canadians wistfully dreaming about the CF-107... "Of all the words penned by men, the saddest are these, 'What might have been.'" Displacedjim
 
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boris the romanian    RE:russian millitary muscle (sooner)to:wait wat?   2/26/2004 8:59:58 PM
"Well then it sure is a good thing for us the pathetic piece-of-crap Russian economy can't support training most of their pilots more than 100 hours a year, so the odds of running into a skillfully flown Su-37 are just about nil" That's ALMOST accurate. Most Russian fighter pilots have very few flying hours per year compared to Western pilots, but the best Russian pilots are very good indeed, and would be able to give Western pilots a run for their money. But you're right, 95% of pilots aren't very well trained or that experienced.
 
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ace    RE:russian millitary muscle (sooner)to:wait wat?   2/28/2004 3:41:31 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but i read that the su-37 isn't going into production, it was more of a prototype, just like th su-35. The Russians have developed a latter version using the su-37 concept, the su-54. It's baisicaly a smaller version of the su-37, and apperantly equiped with better avionics, and is more agille. I'll try to find a web for more info.
 
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boris the romanian    RE:russian millitary muscle (sooner)to:wait wat?   3/1/2004 8:06:39 PM
The Su-54? nah..... "The bigger the better....in everything"....(Freddie Merkury, 1989)....LOL The Su-37 isn't going into production for Russia, but it is being offered for export. Australia should get some instead of F-35s, that would be cool. The Su-37 has numerous advantages in the air supremacy role, as a stealthy F-35 has pathetic combat persistance (I know it isn't its primary role, but the RAAF hasn't any F-22s to achieve air superiority). A couple of regiments of RAAF Su-37 would be the dominant force in the region (especially if supported by a squadron or so of Su-34 bombers). I know that this is against political reality, but if the RAAF opted for this arangement, it would be an altogether more capable force, as it has great pilots and capable AWACS/EW/ECCM support.
 
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roadcop    RE:russian fighter pilots   3/4/2004 3:45:41 PM
Well, I dont think that 95 % of our pilots are inadequate. Russian pilots remain a military elite, in terms of training and in other people's view. Many of them have actual combat experience albeit air-to-ground. They are determined and agressive enough. Most first line units manned by good pilots. Tech personnel also shouldnt be underestimated. I even think that most modern pilots are more capable than in 1970-1980. There is no any "political training", Lenin's Room, other communist crap in modern units. There is only training and combat tasks. Pilots are rotating through Chechnya or Aphgan Border, acuiring useful skills (missile evasion, low-level flight, all-weather and night flight, flight in mountainous terrain, etc.). At least, units based at Kola Peninsula fly regularly. I think (IMHO), their pilots have more than 100 hours a year. And those are units equipped with modern tech - Su-27, MiG-31, Tu-22M3, A-50, Su-33.
 
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Okoshka    RE:russian millitary muscle   3/8/2004 5:50:58 AM
The army is only the sword. The muscle is the economy. Russia has a huge rusty sword and no muscles to move it. They had no money in the last 20 years to research and development. They are mending the problems of the 20-30 years old systems. No money to basicly new developements, no money to buy enough from the slightly enhanced ones.
 
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roadcop    RE:russian millitary muscle   3/8/2004 4:15:50 PM
Research and Development of new weapon systems continues. In last 10 years there were many weapon systems introduced to public. Examples - Firearms (New AK-100 family of assault rifles, Nikonov AN-94 assault rifle already in series, "Groza" combined weapon system, heavy 12,7 and 14,5 mm sniper rifles, vast family of new SMGs - Klin, Kedr, Bison, PP-90 and PP-93, new silenced arms - VSS sniper rifle, AS assault rifle, PSS pistol, etc.). Lets take GSh-18 pistol - its lighter than Makarov PM (630 g against 810 g, ceramic alloys used), has 18-round magazine, its bullets capable to penetrate personal armor vests. Infantry heavy weapons - new grenade launchers and mini-ATGMs, new ATGM Kornet. Armor - T-90 in latest variants with active anti-warhead protection, Black Eagle with 135 or 152mm gun, "Vena" 120-mm self-propelled gun with Kitolov ("Whaler") laser-guided rounds, BTR-90 APC armed and armored heavier than most IFVs, new GAZ armored trucks ("Vodnik") and such. Aviation - Mi-28N and Ka-52 attack helicopters, Su-39 anti-tank aircraft (superb), Su-32BM (or Su-34) bombers, new fighters. So, dont say that in Russia weapon R and D doesn't exist.
 
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