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Subject: If Hitler had invaded ONLY east - not west?
reefdiver    10/4/2006 4:38:10 PM
Much has been said that Hitler's foley and downfall was in opening an eastern and 2nd front against Russia, but what if he'd ONLY gone after Russia (well and Poland etc in the middle)? Could he have beaten them? Would western Europe have reacted if he'd left them alone and only gone after Russia?
 
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AdvanceAustralia    Too late   10/18/2006 2:18:49 PM
Western Europe's involvement had little to do with Hitler attacking westwards. After years of appeasement the UK and France drew a line in the sand and guaranteed Polish independence. As soon as Hitler invaded Poland they declared war on Germany.

Even if Poland had not been in the way it is debatable whether Germany could have defeated Russia, with it's seemingly never-ending strategic depth and enormous human resources upon which to draw.

To many students of military history the first rule of warfare is "don't invade Russia". Just ask Napoleon.

 
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S-2    Hitler's Panzers East   10/18/2006 2:37:34 PM
Sure would be nice if somebody used the History boards now and again for this stuff, but that's just me and my sense of tidiness.
 
Might want to take a look though, as there's been tons of discussions about possible scenarios/variants discussed to exhaustion.
 
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AdvanceAustralia    Thanks S2   10/18/2006 3:00:30 PM
I'd never actually noticed the Military History link on the top left of the page. Your comment led me to have a look and find it. I'll have read through.

Cheers.

 
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reefdiver       10/19/2006 12:19:11 AM
Likewise - never noticed the history threads either.
 
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jastayme3       10/23/2006 3:29:22 PM

Western Europe's involvement had little to do with Hitler attacking westwards. After years of appeasement the UK and France drew a line in the sand and guaranteed Polish independence. As soon as Hitler invaded Poland they declared war on Germany.

Even if Poland had not been in the way it is debatable whether Germany could have defeated Russia, with it's seemingly never-ending strategic depth and enormous human resources upon which to draw.

To many students of military history the first rule of warfare is "don't invade Russia". Just ask Napoleon.

Or you can ask the Golden Horde.

Russia's legendary inpregnability is based on Poltava(which hardly any remember), 1812, and world war ii.

There were more excuses for "don't besiege Constantinople"-now known as Istanbul.

The first rule of warfare is that there is an exception to every rule.

 
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Photon       4/23/2007 3:15:04 PM
In the historical 1941, the Germans came pretty close, as the opening phase went pretty much as a 'wet dream':  The Russians were not ready for the German onslaught, both politically and militarily, and could not effective control their forces until the Germans approached Moscow and Leningrad.

As for Poland:  By the time the Germans annexed Czechoslovakia, the line was drawn between themselves and the British/French.  It would have been the best for him, had he allowed to gobble up Poland with bluff, just like what he has done with the Rhineland, Austria, and Czechoslovakia.  When the Brits and the French drew the line, Hitler was greatly pissed off -- he was not quite ready for the escalation.

For the Germans to have been more effective, they would have had to do the following:

1.  Gear up for multi-season campaigns; total mobilization.  (The Germans did not start total mobilization until 1943 ... too little, too late.)

2.  Better propaganda.  (What the Germans should have done was to play up the Russians' fear and hatred towards Stalin's regime; also play up ethnic and regional tension towards Kremlin.  They should have been exploited to the max in places like the Ukraine and the Baltic States.)

3.  Had the Germans pursued #1 early, they could have built more aircraft and submarines to have a better luck in the Atlantic.  (Establishing the means of strangling the Brits should have been a major part of their overall strategic objective from the Day One, regardless of what happened in Russia.)

4.  Persuade the Japanese to attack Siberia.  (Not sure how well the Germans would persuade the Japanese, though, since, by then, the Japanese were more interested in Southeast Asia.  At the global level, the German-Japanese alliance did not turn out to be much; they were geographically too far apart and could not coordinate their military plans.)
 
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