Military History
|
How To Make War
|
Wars Around the World
Rules of Use
How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Russia
Discussion Board
Return to Topic Page
Subject:
If Hitler had invaded ONLY east - not west?
reefdiver
10/4/2006 4:38:10 PM
Much has been said that Hitler's foley and downfall was in opening an eastern and 2nd front against Russia, but what if he'd ONLY gone after Russia (well and Poland etc in the middle)? Could he have beaten them? Would western Europe have reacted if he'd left them alone and only gone after Russia?
Quote
Reply
Show Only Poster Name and Title
Newest to Oldest
AdvanceAustralia
Too late
10/18/2006 2:18:49 PM
Western Europe's involvement had little to do with Hitler attacking westwards. After years of appeasement the UK and France drew a line in the sand and guaranteed Polish independence. As soon as Hitler invaded Poland they declared war on Germany.
Even if Poland had not been in the way it is debatable whether Germany could have defeated Russia, with it's seemingly never-ending strategic depth and enormous human resources upon which to draw.
To many students of military history the first rule of warfare is "don't invade Russia". Just ask Napoleon.
Quote
Reply
S-2
Hitler's Panzers East
10/18/2006 2:37:34 PM
Sure would be nice if somebody used the History boards now and again for this stuff, but that's just me and my sense of tidiness.
Might want to take a look though, as there's been tons of discussions about possible scenarios/variants discussed to exhaustion.
Quote
Reply
AdvanceAustralia
Thanks S2
10/18/2006 3:00:30 PM
I'd never actually noticed the Military History link on the top left of the page. Your comment led me to have a look and find it. I'll have read through.
Cheers.
Quote
Reply
reefdiver
10/19/2006 12:19:11 AM
Likewise - never noticed the history threads either.
Quote
Reply
jastayme3
10/23/2006 3:29:22 PM
Western Europe's involvement had little to do with Hitler attacking westwards. After years of appeasement the UK and France drew a line in the sand and guaranteed Polish independence. As soon as Hitler invaded Poland they declared war on Germany.
Even if Poland had not been in the way it is debatable whether Germany could have defeated Russia, with it's seemingly never-ending strategic depth and enormous human resources upon which to draw.
To many students of military history the first rule of warfare is "don't invade Russia". Just ask Napoleon.
Or you can ask the Golden Horde.
Russia's legendary inpregnability is based on Poltava(which hardly any remember), 1812, and world war ii.
There were more excuses for "don't besiege Constantinople"-now known as Istanbul.
The first rule of warfare is that there is an exception to every rule.
Quote
Reply
Photon
4/23/2007 3:15:04 PM
In the historical 1941, the Germans came pretty close, as the opening phase went pretty much as a 'wet dream': The Russians were not ready for the German onslaught, both politically and militarily, and could not effective control their forces until the Germans approached Moscow and Leningrad.
As for Poland: By the time the Germans annexed Czechoslovakia, the line was drawn between themselves and the British/French. It would have been the best for him, had he allowed to gobble up Poland with bluff, just like what he has done with the Rhineland, Austria, and Czechoslovakia. When the Brits and the French drew the line, Hitler was greatly pissed off -- he was not quite ready for the escalation.
For the Germans to have been more effective, they would have had to do the following:
1. Gear up for multi-season campaigns; total mobilization. (The Germans did not start total mobilization until 1943 ... too little, too late.)
2. Better propaganda. (What the Germans should have done was to play up the Russians' fear and hatred towards Stalin's regime; also play up ethnic and regional tension towards Kremlin. They should have been exploited to the max in places like the Ukraine and the Baltic States.)
3. Had the Germans pursued #1 early, they could have built more aircraft and submarines to have a better luck in the Atlantic. (Establishing the means of strangling the Brits should have been a major part of their overall strategic objective from the Day One, regardless of what happened in Russia.)
4. Persuade the Japanese to attack Siberia. (Not sure how well the Germans would persuade the Japanese, though, since, by then, the Japanese were more interested in Southeast Asia. At the global level, the German-Japanese alliance did not turn out to be much; they were geographically too far apart and could not coordinate their military plans.)
Quote
Reply
Latest
News
Most
Read
Most
Commented
Hot
Topics
AIR DEFENSE: Never Enough Air Defense Missiles
SUBMARINES: US Colombia SSBNs Behind Schedule
PROCUREMENT: Neutral Switzerland Upgrades Its Military
PROCUREMENT: Neutral Switzerland Upgrades Its Military
CHINA: China April 2024 Update
SUBMARINES: New Submarines for Norway
WEAPONS: Russia Running Out of Antique Weapons
SOMALIA: Somalia April 2024
ARTILLERY: New Iranian Weapons
INTELLIGENCE: NATO Suspects a Threat
ATTRITION: Russia fires on Ukrainian Fakes
NAVAL AIR: Tritons Assemble
WEAPONS: South Korean Arms Exports to the Middle East
LIBYA: Libya April Update
ARTILLERY: Russia Bombards Ukraine With North Korean Missiles
WARPLANES: South Korea’s Troubled KF-21 Jet Fighter Project
AIR WEAPONS: Drones Dominate Ukrainian Battlefield
SUBMARINES: Ukraine Obtains Anti-Submarine Weapons
MURPHY'S LAW: Nationwide Impact of Ukraine War in Russia
STRATEGIC WEAPONS: American ARRW Missile Tested
SURFACE FORCES : Vasily Bykov class Corvettes
SPECIAL OPERATIONS: Tatar Rebels in Crimea
PROCUREMENT: China Supercharges Military Spending
ARMOR: M1A2SEP3 Tank Paradox
AIR DEFENSE: Russia Seeks Answers
ARTILLERY: HIMARS Prevails Against Russians
ARTILLERY: Chinese-Truck Mounted Artillery
SURFACE FORCES : Zumwalt Class Destroyers Find a Purpose
ARTILLERY: NATO Artillery Shell Shortage
SUBMARINES: Lada Class Submarine Abandoned
Subscribe to Our RSS Feed
Air Defense: Never Enough Air Defense Missiles
Submarines: US Colombia SSBNs Behind Schedule
WARS China: China April 2024 Update
Weapons: Russia Running Out of Antique Weapons
Procurement: Neutral Switzerland Upgrades Its Military
Procurement: Neutral Switzerland Upgrades Its Military
Submarines: New Submarines for Norway
Artillery: New Iranian Weapons
On PointIsrael's Airspace Defense Victory: Credit Reagan's SDI
WARS Somalia: Somalia April 2024
Intelligence: NATO Suspects a Threat
Attrition: Russia fires on Ukrainian Fakes
Naval Air: Tritons Assemble
Weapons: South Korean Arms Exports to the Middle East
Air Weapons: Drones Dominate Ukrainian Battlefield
Artillery: Russia Bombards Ukraine With North Korean Missiles
WEAPONS: Russia Running Out of Antique Weapons
CHINA: China April 2024 Update
SUBMARINES: New Submarines for Norway
WEAPONS: South Korean Arms Exports to the Middle East
NAVAL AIR: Tritons Assemble
ATTRITION: Russia fires on Ukrainian Fakes
INTELLIGENCE: NATO Suspects a Threat
ARTILLERY: New Iranian Weapons
SOMALIA: Somalia April 2024
PROCUREMENT: Neutral Switzerland Upgrades Its Military
PROCUREMENT: Neutral Switzerland Upgrades Its Military
SUBMARINES: US Colombia SSBNs Behind Schedule
AIR DEFENSE: Never Enough Air Defense Missiles
AIR DEFENSE: Where the Patriot Missile Batteries Are
SPECIAL OPERATIONS: Ukrainian Improvised Air-Defense Network
News
How To Make War
Wars Around The World
Austin Bay's On Point
StrategyTalk
Dirty Little Secrets
Features
Al Nofi's CIC
Videos
Photos
Jokes
Community
Military Discussion Boards
Military Jokes
Military Photos
Military Book Reviews
StrategyPage
Account Manager
Login
Feedback
About Us
Search
Advertise With Us
Search