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Subject: Russia Smokes Chief Terrorist
Roman    3/9/2005 12:00:27 AM
I know that I should not be happy when somebody dies, but today I am almost dancing with joy. Russian special forces killed one of the chief terrorists today - the bastard named Aslan Mashkadov. Mashkadov tried to picture himself as an 'acceptable face' of the Islamic Chechen terrorists and the gullible leftist media generally bought it, but the reality was far different. Although he initially claimed not to be involved in terrorist attacks outside Chechnya, just a few weeks ago he admitted in an interview given through the Chechen Islamist terrorist mouthpiece agency that he controlled numerous 'operations' outside Chechnya. By the same token, although he claimed to be separate from Shamil Basayev (another brutal terrorist), again about two month he admitted that he meets and coordinates with him and that Basayev is under his command. Once again: Congratulations Russia! Today is a great day in the fight against terrorism and I wish my Russian friends good luck in catching or killing also Shamil Basayev - another prominent terrorists. I also wish my American friends good luck in catching Osama Bin Laden and Zarquawi. Although most likely none of these terrorists (Mashkadov, Basayev, Bin Laden and Zarquawi) are very important from the point of view of decreasing the amount of terrorism in the short term and the medium term, taking them out is very important for symbolic reasons and can demoralize the terrorists in the long term and hit their recruitment.
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GBU28    RE:Russia Smokes Chief Terrorist    3/9/2005 2:57:52 AM
U really don't understand the significance of the culture matyrdom in this topic do you. Killing them only gives these people more importance to their followers, and only reinforces their cause. Capturing them and utterly humiliating them on the public stage and forcing them to spend their life behind bars, would be a much more effective tactic to demoralize the enemy you speak of.
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Roman    RE:Russia Smokes Chief Terrorist    3/9/2005 3:53:28 AM
I agree that capturing and humiliating them would be even better than killing them and both Russia and the U.S. prefer to capture terrorists, but it is not always possible to do so. In that case, it is better to kill them than to let them live and conduct their activities. There is, naturally, the martyrdom angle, but there is also another important angle that drives terrorists. Terrorists like Bin Laden or Mashkadov are seen as models because they are able to humiliate and defy great powers (the U.S. and Russia in this case) and get away with it with impunity. This makes their targets seem impotent, provides a morale boost to the terrorists, encourages terrorists to continue in their activities and attracts new followers. If these icons are dead it can be seen that the hand of justice of the great powers in question is long and 'even men like these' (heroes to the terrorists) cannot escape it. I believe the latter phenonemon is more important than the martyrdom phenonemon. As I said, it would indeed be preferable to capture and humiliate them and that is what is strived for, but it is not always possible and killing them is the next best thing. It is a good day today. :)
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Yimmy    RE:Russia Smokes Chief Terrorist    3/9/2005 2:20:27 PM
Even Stalin had show trials.
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Shirrush    RE:Russia Smokes Chief Terrorist    3/10/2005 7:42:12 PM
I'm not current on Russia or on Russian politics, and I'm here on the Russia board as a one-time visitor, but the Kremlin's announcement of Maskhadov's killing, and particularly the Soviet-agitprop way it was presented to the media, got my attention so I went looking for commentaries. The French daily "Le Monde", which I usually find a mild irritation when it comes to foreign policy matters and particularly the Middle-East, had this piece by André Glucksmann, a French political philosopher that I and most other left-leaning French-speaking Jews would trust through fire and water:,1-0@2-3232,36-400935,0.html . Roman's enthusiasm for Putin's approach to "fighting terrorism" left me no choice other than lift the entire article and strenuously translate it in order to bring to this board, a very different, but not necessarily contradictory, view of the Chechnyia conflict. I apologize for the lengthy post, and for any translation errors or inaccuracies stemming from the clumsiness of the amateur I am. Regards; Shirrush. POINT OF VIEW The New Tsar Thanks You..., by André Glucksmann. Le Monde, 03/09/2005, 14:36 Misters Chirac, Bush and Schröder, thank you. Aslan Maskhadov, the president of Chechnyia elected under international supervision, is dead. Assassinated. The Russian authoritie's plan has been successful: they are now facing alone, Shamil Bassaev, the extremist leader they had trained, and that they had spared many times, from Budienovsk to Daghestan. Mr. Putin, the Soviet agent that spends his holidays in the company of Mrs. Schröder and Berlusconi, is now facing his alter-ego, a terrorist that is not yet of his calibre but already possesses his cruelty. The massacre will be allowed to continue, and the terror attacks, to resume. Aslan Maskhadov had just announced an unilateral cease-fire, and had declared himself representative of occidental values and not of those of radical islamism. This one month-old truce had been respected by all the boeviki - the Chechen fighters - . Maskhadov had shown his strength. It was (therefore) time to kill him, in order to prevent the spirit of the "permanent revolutions" that our friend the Tsar abhors, from winning the northern Caucasus. No western leader has ever dared to call on the Kremlin to negotiate with a battered and heroic people's only legitimate leader. Remember Commander (Ahmad Shah) Mass'oud in Afghanistan. He had resisted, first the Russians, then the islamists; he was then abandoned by the democracies and murdered, to Ben Laden's benefit. Encore: not one of our representatives contradicted Vladimir Putin as he equated the military resistance of the Chechen partisans of independance to international terrorism. To the contrary, Chirac and Schröder have proclaimed the master of the Kremlin an Archangel of Peace, for the sake of his sympathies toward Saddam Hussein. This was an open cheque, and the KGB man has just cashed it in. Devoid of ethics, our leaders additionally exhibit a remarkable political imbecility. Which leader will now be able to soothe those thousands of torture victims that dream only of revenge? Which leader will ever be apt to negotiate, if one day the Russians become aware of the murderous madness that has taken hold of them? How is it posible to find, among the young generation that has known nothing but war and oppression, a man with the stature and the moderation of Maskhadov? Chechnyia will sink even deeper into the horror. And she will not plunge alone. Who was holding back the grief-crazed fighters from blowing up a nuclear power plant in Russia? Corrupt secret services? Obviously not. Who was containing the influence of Bassaev, this former GRU, the special services of the Russian army, operative in the midst of the Chechen resistance movement? Who, if not Aslan Maskhadov? A dying Yasser Arafat was granted the full honors of France and of Europe. The Chechen president, that himself had never called for the murder of innocent civilians, will die as alone as he fought. Deserted by the world, isolated in his rebellious mountains, seeing his people massacred amid general indifference, Maskhadov unconditionally condemned the taking of the hostages in the Moscow theater and the horror of Beslan, even offering to come in person to interdict the massacre of innocents. Just like he had castigated, straightaway, the Sept. 11 attacks. A hero of independance, he had proposed an antiterrorist peace plan that in effect was postponing the question of actual independance until later. For the sake of Peace. This plan included the demilitarization of the combatants under international control. The UN, the EU, the OSCE, NATO, and all the "thingies" ("machins", a derogatory qualifier used by Charles de Gaulle everytime he mentioned the UN.- Shirrush.) that are supposed to keep the Peace among peoples and to guarantee nations' self -determination have not even condescen
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Hound_1K    ÊRE: Shirrush   3/11/2005 4:03:26 AM
Oh, I’ve read this article several days ago. You know, Shirrush, I recommend you not to base your opinion on a words of up in the clouds philosopher. Read the eyewitnesses’s stories, how Chechens killed and enslaved Russian population prior to 1994. Obvously, you won’t find those on the pages of Western newpapers, but it still somewhere on the internet. As for this article, there’s nothing worthy, except of some pathetic phrases and labels. KGB spy, genocydical ideas, tsarist, mad. Where is ‘demonical’? Gluksmann should have put ‘demonical’ into the article. I’ve found just a few logical arguements in Gluksmann’s stream of ravings. >Aslan Maskhadov had just announced an unilateral cease-fire, and had declared himself >representative of occidental values and not of those of radical islamism. Too bad his unilateral cease-fire never worked. And I gues public executions, which were usual for Maskhadov’s rule, were of those ‘occidental values’. I wonder if Glucksmann spectated those executions, as a tourist. >Who was holding back the grief-crazed fighters from blowing up a nuclear power plant in Russia? >Corrupt secret services? Obviously not. Who if not Maskhadov was holding back Chechen fighters from taking hostages in Beslan school? Oh, he wasn’t? André Glucksmann doesn’t write about that. >He replied by way of (audio)tape. a very long letter, in which he was denouncing islamism, and >concluding "never, in a free Chechnyia, will a Chechen woman be compelled to veil herself. Yeah, in free Chechnya, only Russian women would be slaves. But that’s ok, says Gluksmann. Shirrush. You REALLY shoud view those videos. Public executions at the centre of Grozny. Many of the killed were women. In other words, get a clue.
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