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Subject: Joint Intelligence Efforts with Israel
giblets    9/8/2004 5:37:59 AM
According to strategypage this is due to all the spys they have in the middle east, maybe it is more related to all the spies in the pentagon lol
 
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Big Bad Pariah    RE:Joint Intelligence Efforts with Israel   9/10/2004 12:15:44 AM
It's not a like international terrorist groups are targeting both countries. Both Israel and Russia are facing homegrown terror from within their own borders.
 
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swhitebull    RE:Joint Intelligence Efforts with Israel   9/10/2004 6:38:40 AM
..It's not a like international terrorist groups are targeting both countries. Both Israel and Russia are facing homegrown terror from within their own borders.... Oh really? I suppose that the IRANIAN-funded Hizbollah, and other IRANIAN assaults on Israeli and Jewish interests worldwide (Argentina), the Karine-B ship that was traced to Iranian with arms to the PLO, much evidence of Al-Qaeda and Hizbollah in Gaza (the bulk of Hizbollah are shi'ite Lebanese, NOT Sunni Muslim Palestinians), the bombing of Israeli-Kenyan hotels in Kenya by Al-Qaeda, along with evidence of European sharpshooters [most likely Balkan or IRa] in the West Bank and Gaza as well, arent evidence of INTERNATIONAL terrorist groups? What planet are YOU living on? Where do you get make this crap up? swhitebull - apparently, your knowledge of what goes on in Israel and its fight agaisnt the scourge of Islamic terrorists WORLDWIDE is as thorough and accurate as your knowledge of the causes of the fall of the Soviet Union. Seeing as there are hundreds of thousands of Arabic-speaking Israelis, who is BEST able to work with the Russians on rooting out this plague. I presume you forget that arab-speaking members of Al-qaeda, NOT just the Chechnian branch, have been found attackig Russian interests. Opps, I forget, that doenst fit your myopic view of Russia and the world. Giblets - with whom I have had disagreements regarding Israeli policies, at least understands the international connection of your solely "homegrown terrorists" to Terror Inc. throughout the world. Please do your research before making such blatantly stupid statements as you have just done. It only makes you look foolish.
 
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Big Bad Pariah    RE:Joint Intelligence Efforts with Israel   9/10/2004 11:31:51 AM
Ah here we go...another delusional rant from the forum cowboy swhitebull. I schooled you during our previous debate on the collapse of the Soviet Union. LMAO @ your childish and simplistic belief that Reagan's rhetoric destroyed the power structure of the USSR. I guess Jesus was on his side too, right? Now tell me, does either Hezbollah or its Iranian backers target Russia? Nyet. Despite speculation, there is no proof that Iran has had any links to Chechen terrorists. There is much speculation of links between Al-Qaeda and the Chechen terrorists led by Shamil Basayev. However, these links have not yet been proven. Claims of Chechens fighting in places like Afghanistan turned out to be false. It is highly likely that Islamic mercenaries from Arab nations (along with Turkey and Central Asia) have fought in Chechnya against Russian forces. Russia has claimed many times of Arab involvement. However, there is still no confirmed current cooperation between Chechens and Al-Qaeda despite highly likely past contacts. Does Al-Qaeda have a grudge against Russia? Of course, but as of yet, they haven't been involved in any attacks against Russia. The attacks against the Russian airliners and the Moscow bombing were committed by an Islamic group linked to the Chechen Black Widows. Russia has implicated various groups and individuals in the Beslan attack but Shamil Basayev appears as the prime suspect. Israel and Russia face different terrorist groups with different agendas. To simply say they are both fighting the same form of 'global terrorism' should be considered a gross simplication of two distinct problems.
 
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swhitebull    RE:Joint Intelligence Efforts with Israel   9/10/2004 11:47:56 AM
..Ah here we go...another delusional rant from the forum cowboy swhitebull. I schooled you during our previous debate on the collapse of the Soviet Union.... What school was that, PARIAH? The BBP School for the learning impaired, where the inmates are in charge? Seems like the teacher didnt have a teaching degree then, since your premises dont hold water under scrutiny - as usual. You forget to pass basic history or something. YOU showed no such thing - only thought you were being clever but offered NO evidence, whereas I backed up MY assertions with numerous articles. But self-delusion from your part of the world is no surprise - the Soviets did it for years - seems you've picked up the Pravda torch. Seems like you got YOUR knuckles smacked VERY hard by the students, then, Namely Sentinel and myself. Maybe you should stand in the corner with a dunce cap on, and really think about what you did. And we say again to you - Sui Hui Chaiy. ..Israel and Russia face different terrorist groups with different agendas. To simply say they are both fighting the same form of 'global terrorism' should be considered a gross simplication of two distinct problems.... Wrong again, bucko. Again, it just shows the total ignorance in which you labor, if you fail to understand the concept of ISLAMIC terrorism permeating ALL countries. KEY words here, bucko. ISLAMO-FASCIST TERRORISTs, common goals, ALL COUNTRIES. Anything unclear about that? But that is only to be expected by one of your limited intellectual, cognitive and teaching talents. Since YOU made the comment that BOTH Russia and Israel faced only INTERNAL opposition, I merely showed in your face that your ignorance is thicker than the skull it resides in, listing ALL of the EXTERNAL sources of terror that ISrael faces, That you fail to read for comprehensionis YOUR problem, NOT MINE. You shold really see a doctor about that - though I presume that they will raise their hands in complete helplessness and consider it a lost cause. Of course, since you make the comment that the Israelis face only INTERNAL foes, and I conclusively refuted your ignorant assertion, one can only conclude that the teacher doesnt know the difference between reality and delusion, needs to go back to public school again to ensure that remedial reading is taken - again- and to check your facts before spouting crap - which you seem to do most often swhitebull - and it's not cowboy here - its BEARS, as in Chicago. have a nice day couting kopecks. BTW - get warned by The board SysOps lately for being an ignorant pissant? oops, seems they forgot.
 
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scholar    RE:Joint Intelligence Efforts with Israel   9/10/2004 12:17:17 PM
What regretable is that Putin won't allow a public investigation of Beslan akin to the 9/11 Commission. We'll never know for sure who the actual terrorists were, although from what I've read they weren't Chechyan. Ingush and maybe Arab. But we, the public, won't know.
 
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Big Bad Pariah    RE:Joint Intelligence Efforts with Israel   9/10/2004 12:53:27 PM
"PARIAH? The BBP School for the learning impaired, where the inmates are in charge? Seems like the teacher didnt have a teaching degree then, since your premises dont hold water under scrutiny - as usual. You forget to pass basic history or something. YOU showed no such thing - only thought you were being clever but offered NO evidence, whereas I backed up MY assertions with numerous articles. But self-delusion from your part of the world is no surprise - the Soviets did it for years - seems you've picked up the Pravda torch." Err....right. Amazing how you say alot but yet say nothing important at the same time. Your assertions are backed up by Republican supporters and Newsmax? Wow, we are all convinced. Pity most Sovietologists would agree with the version of reality I presented. I guess your ignorant mind can't comprehend how an ethnically diverse nation might crumble internally due to nationalistic movements under a weakening central authority. It was liberalisation and democratisation that brought the Soviet regime to crisis point. In truth, a democratised Soviet Union was incompatible with denial of the Baltic states' independence. Oh wait, you said so yourself the USSR collapsed under its own weight, so what are we arguing about again? Hilarious how you assume I'm from Russia because I mentioned I'd been there. Oh well, continue your false assumptions if you so wish. "Wrong again, bucko. Again, it just shows the total ignorance in which you labor, if you fail to understand the concept of ISLAMIC terrorism permeating ALL countries. KEY words here, bucko. ISLAMO-FASCIST TERRORISTs, common goals, ALL COUNTRIES. Anything unclear about that?" So the Palestinians and the Chechens are one and the same? LOL! Most Chechens are more familiar with the teachings of Marx than Mohammed. With all the recent attention on islamic fundamentalism, I'd think that somebody such as yourself would understand the basic differences between the different forms of islamic fundamentalist movements. Or are you one of these people who classes Wahhabism and the theocracy in Iran as one and the same? "Of course, since you make the comment that the Israelis face only INTERNAL foes, and I conclusively refuted your ignorant assertion, one can only conclude that the teacher doesnt know the difference between reality and delusion, needs to go back to public school again to ensure that remedial reading is taken - again- and to check your facts before spouting crap - which you seem to do most often" As of 2004, Israel's prime terrorist threats come from within. Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups are the ones killing Israelis. Hezbollah is largely contained in Lebanon and has lost its sting since the Israeli withdrawel from Lebanon. Russia has no interest is helping Israel fight Hezbollah. Indeed, Russia maintains close relations with both Syria and Iran. What's that? Russia is friendly with Hezbollah's main supporters? I understand your overinflated ego and false sense of confidence needs to be maintained by use of pathetic insults but please, let's stay on topic. The old bait and switch trick isn't going to work all the time. ;)
 
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Big Bad Pariah    RE:Joint Intelligence Efforts with Israel   9/10/2004 12:59:28 PM
"What regretable is that Putin won't allow a public investigation of Beslan akin to the 9/11 Commission. We'll never know for sure who the actual terrorists were, although from what I've read they weren't Chechyan. Ingush and maybe Arab. But we, the public, won't know." Putin has done a backflip and is allowing an investigation due to public pressure. http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/09/10/probe.shtml I've heard that the attackers were Chechen, Ingush, Kazhak and Arab.
 
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swhitebull    RE:Joint Intelligence Efforts with Israel   9/10/2004 1:11:27 PM
..I've heard that the attackers were Chechen, Ingush, Kazhak and Arab.... But WAIT!!! You earlier proclaim in all pontificity: ...It's not a like international terrorist groups are targeting both countries. Both Israel and Russia are facing homegrown terror from within their own borders. You're starting to sound more and more like The Kerry. They are either INTERNAL or they are NOT INTERNAL. Make up your mind already. Well, let's help you, ok? So you mean those internal Islamic Fundamentalists that happen to come from the OTHER COUNTRIES you cited, plus your generic Arab-speaking terrorist, whom we really dont care what country they are from - just that they came to party hearty by blowing little kids away, right? Sure sounds like a nifty internal problem all right, no one else is joining in. swhitebull - please, go ahead and dont let the facts get in your way. Islamic fundamentalists fron Khazakstan, from Ingushtia, from Chechnia and from Arab-speakling countries. Short term memory problem on your part? or cognitive dissonance? At least you can try and keep your facts and comments consistent within a thread.
 
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scholar    RE:Joint Intelligence Efforts with Israel   9/10/2004 1:13:54 PM
I don't trust the Russians when it comes to public investigations. That country's way too "kafkaesque" for the real truth to ever get out. Transparency isn't a possibility. By the way, the perps in Israel's terrorist problem are locals, but they are funded, encouraged, and trained by outsiders. WIthout Syria and Iran there'd be no Hizbullah, and IJ and Hamas would be weak shadows of their present selves. Hizbullah shouldn't be discounted; they still kill and still can kill. No one capable of blowing up Jewish Community Centers in Argentina should be written off as a local Israeli problem.
 
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Big Bad Pariah    RE:Joint Intelligence Efforts with Israel   9/10/2004 1:34:49 PM
"..I've heard that the attackers were Chechen, Ingush, Kazhak and Arab.... But WAIT!!! You earlier proclaim in all pontificity: ...It's not a like international terrorist groups are targeting both countries. Both Israel and Russia are facing homegrown terror from within their own borders." AHAHAHAHAHAHA, thank you so very much for destroying yourself by demonstrating your ignorance of the Caucasus and Central Asia. Since when were Chechnya and Ingushetia external nations? Maybe if you had even a basic understanding of the situation, you'd know that Chechnya and Ingushtia are both republics within the Russian Federation. Therefore, its an internal problems. Wow, this is amazing. You really thought Chechnya was an independent nation? LMAO! This is classic! Hey Einstein, why do you think the Chechens are fighting the Russian military? Maybe the term 'separatist' is too hard to understand. Do you know anything at all about the Russian-Chechen conflict? By the way, if you bothered to read my previous posts, you would have noticed I mentioned foreign mercenaries fighting Russian forces in Chechnya. I'll repeat what I stated in a previous post since you can't seem to comprehend past statements: "There is much speculation of links between Al-Qaeda and the Chechen terrorists led by Shamil Basayev. However, these links have not yet been proven. Claims of Chechens fighting in places like Afghanistan turned out to be false. It is highly likely that Islamic mercenaries from Arab nations (along with Turkey and Central Asia) have fought in Chechnya against Russian forces. Russia has claimed many times of Arab involvement. However, there is still no confirmed current cooperation between Chechens and Al-Qaeda" - BBP Thank you oh so much for making a fool of yourself. "please, go ahead and dont let the facts get in your way" FACTS? Let me know next time you take a trip to the independent nation of Ingushetia, okay?
 
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