When will CNN, MSNBC, et al. start reporting these bastards as terrorists, which is exactly what they are. Versus calling them "separatist rebels" or "militants."

"No, they're not supermen, but special forces can also be professional and competent." This was not a planned operation by the Russian forces. Basically, the terrorists started shooting at fleeing children and entire situation fell into chaos after that. Also, Russian forces have had just as much experience fighting terrorists in Chechnya than Israel has in the occupied territories.

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040903_1037.html My condolences go out to the families who have lost loved ones during this disgusting act of terrorism. These animals were using children as human shields. One of these bastards even called himself a hero when talking to Russian negotiators. Actions like these will never bring peace and stability to Chechnya or anywhere else. I'm thankful that hardliners do control the Kremlin at the moment because these delusional islamic criminals deserve no human rights. Even the secular Chechen separatist leadership is against these people.

Reuters reports: "Of the 20 gunmen killed, 10 were Arabs. This adds credence to Russia's contention that Chechen rebels are backed by foreign Islamic militants. The hostage-takers were believed to number about 40." BBP, I know you're disappointed that there's AlQaeda participation with your precious romantic Chechen "heroes", but consider these "inexplicable" reports of Arabs found among the dead guerrillas are an ominous indicator of pan-Islamicist militancy. Hell, who assassinated Ahmad Shah Masood in Afghanistan? Sure wasn't an Afghan -- it was an Arab! Recently, one of the bombers of the Tanzania & Kenya embassies was caught -- not on the African continent, but in Pakistan! Terrorists don't like borders -- these are things made by states -- states they don't like. And of these Arabs found in this latest incident -- you can bet they aren't from poor families, or else they'd be working a couple of jobs to feed their kin. So tell me, then -- exactly how close is Chechnya to the Persian Gulf? What percentage of the population in Chechnya is Arab? How many people in Chechnya even speak Arabic? Step1: Commit a massacre,hijacking,whatever Step2: Wait for security forces to show up Step3: Declare that your violence was necessary to repel security forces Step4: Go back to Step1

Actually, I was thinking that the best way to deflect blame from terrorists in this case, would be to come up with something like "As usual, Russian bungling has caused tremendous death toll, as occurred with the Moscow theater incident" When a bankrobber robs a bank, and the security guard isn't quick enough to stop him, you don't attach more blame to the security guard than to the bankrobber himself. That would be irrational. But under the slant of zealots, the irrational somehow is pitched as being rational.

BBP writes: "Even the secular Chechen separatist leadership is against these people." How would you know? Are you in telephone contact with these people? You're sounding like their spokesman, for Pete's sake.

I've been trying to reconstruct events based on the confused reporting. This is my understanding of the situation. If someone has better info, please correct this time line. 1) Terrorists assault school, killing about two dozen people. Several children bleed to death in front of thier parents because rescue workers are shot at by terrorists holed up in school. Russian army surrounds school. Putin promises to negotiate. 2) Several dozens children die of heat exposure because terrorists refuse offers of water and refuse to allow captives to get drink/go to bathroom. Many children remove clothing while suffering in heat. Gym becomes filled with urine, feces, and stinking corpses. 2) Russians negotiate truce to remove corpses of children from around school. While ambulances are arriving, there is an explosion probably accidental. My best guess is either that a suicide bomber accidently released a dead man switch (similar to the incident in the Rhidya bombings), or else a group of children paniced and attempted to go out a door which had been mined. Whatever the case, the explosions triggers mass panic in the school. Hundreds of children suddenly go uncontrolled. Many score begin fleeing out doors and windows. Terrorists begin shooting escaping children in the back. 3) Both Russian army and terrorists are caught off gaurd by unfolding events. An uncordinated (and perhaps spontaneous) assualt on the school begins. Terrorists break into small groups. Some set off bombs. Others change into civilian clothing and mingle with fleeing parents. Others wall themselves into defensive points in the school. One group breaks through the lose siege and enters a nearby housing unit before being surrounded. 4) At least an additional 100 teachers, parents, children, and police officers die during the assualt. Russian army kills 20 terrorists, of which 10 appear to be foriegn Arabs. More than 400 children are wounded, many with gunshot wounds in the back. 5) To this point, no Islamic government appears to have denounced the seige, nor have I heard a major outcry by Islamic religious leaders denouncing the choice of an elementary school as military target.

BTW, that was only intended to be a rough outline. I'll feel in more details and times when I get the chance. Any help in the elaboration would be appreciated.

Amazing link. http://www.logicandsanity.com/archives/2004/09/school_seized_i.html Check out the pictures. Scroll down. Horrible.

From CNN: Survivor recounts horror in Russian school Captors laugh as children, elderly faint Friday, September 3, 2004 Posted: 5:27 PM EDT (2127 GMT) An injured boy is rushed away from the siege school Friday. VIDEO The fate of many hostages unknown as scores reported dead at a Russian school PLAY VIDEO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A gunbattle continues at a Russian school where hundreds were captive PLAY VIDEO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chechen rebels are blamed for dozens of attacks in recent years. PLAY VIDEO RELATED • Gallery: School siege crisis • On the scene: 'Impotent rage' of siege parents • Timeline: Attacks in Russia • Profile: 'Black widows' wreak terror • Interactive: Russia's forgotten war -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- • Putin: Children's safety paramount • Standoff in Russia school siege • Moscow suicide bomber kills 9 • Explosions led to Russia crashes YOUR E-MAIL ALERTS Russia Acts of terror Chechnya (Russia) or Create your own Manage alerts | What is this? BESLAN, Russia (AP) -- Holding up the corpse of a man just shot dead in front of hundreds of hostages at a Russian school, the rebel -- his pockets stuffed with ammunition and grenades -- warned: "If a child utters even a sound, we'll kill another one." When children fainted from lack of sleep, food and water, their masked and camouflaged captors simply sneered. In the intolerable heat of the gym, adults implored children to drink their own urine. Hours after escaping alive, a woman who had been taken hostage with her 7-year-old son and her mother spoke of three days of unspeakable horror -- of children so wired with fear they couldn't sleep, of captors coolly threatening to kill off hostages one by one, of a gymnasium so cramped there was hardly room to move. "We were in complete fear," said Alla Gadieyeva, 24, who spoke to an Associated Press reporter as she lay in a stretcher outside a hospital. "People were praying all the time and those that didn't know how to pray -- we taught them." The woman told her tale after commandos stormed the school in this southern Russian town, bringing the nation's worst hostage crisis to a head Friday. The carnage left more than 200 people dead and more than 700 people wounded, according to officials. Children faint, captors laugh Alla and her mother Irina were in the school courtyard seeing off her son Zaur for his first day of school when they heard sounds like "balloons popping." She thought the noise was part of school festivities. It wasn't. Five rebels suddenly burst into the courtyard, shooting in the air and ordering people to get inside the school. Children, parents, and teachers -- Alla estimated there were about 1,000 in all -- were corralled into a corner on the ground floor and then pushed into the gymnasium. Alla said children whimpered in fear, and all around there was screaming and crying. The hostages were forced to crouch, their hands folded over their heads. For the rebels, the first order of business was confiscating cell phones. They smashed the phones and made the following threat: "If we find any mobile phones, we will shoot 20 people all around you." On Day 1, people got a tiny bit of water to drink, but no food. From Day 2, Alla said, nothing. When she asked the rebels for water for her mother, they laughed at her. "My mother was terrified, and I thought she was having a heart attack. When I saw my son, my mother ... go unconscious, so tired, so thirsty, I wanted it all to come to an end," she said. "When children began to faint, they laughed," Alla said. "They were totally indifferent." During the ordeal, Zaur became so traumatized that he would flinch whenever someone would touch him, or even brush by him. Like other children, his only spells of sleep were the times he fell unconscious from thirst and exhaustion. When asked how her son would remember the ordeal, Alla replied: "How can a person ever forget it? Would you ever forget it?" Bombs hung from ceiling As Alla spoke under a grove of spruce trees, she had not yet been reunited with her mother or son, although authorities confirmed to her that they were alive. She recounted how the hostage-takers eventually took off their masks. They had beards, long hair, and spoke with Chechen accents, she said. When children started to faint from thirst, the adults urged them to urinate. It was so they could drink their own urine, Alla said. We'll shoot until our guns stop. And when our guns stop, we'll blow up the building. -- Captor in Russian school The gymnasium was quickly transformed into an arsenal of explosives -- bombs dangling from the ceiling, set on