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Subject: Russia is being crippled by the U.S
chicom_guy    7/1/2004 2:25:12 AM
The U.S is trying to cripple the Russian state through economic means. The objective of the U.S is to weaken all the majors powers in the world to the point of military/economic insignificance. To acheive that objective in Russia, the U.S is trying to the old tactic of making Russian economy into a resource export center. Just like with Saudi Arabia, the U.S hopes to reduce the Russian economy to nothing more than the energy industry. This industry would of course be totally dependent upon the U.S. Russia, with it's oil inflated wealth, would then have a living standard that is too high to re-industrialize and regain it's former might. Thus, if the Americans have their way, Russia will become a kind of economic colony of the U.S. Now I'm asking the Russians on this site: is this the future that you want for your country?
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Kadett    RE:Russia is being crippled by the U.S   7/1/2004 2:31:51 AM
I assume you have some evidence to back up your accusation?.
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Kadett    US-Russian Trade   7/1/2004 2:37:55 AM
From 2000: Leading U.S. Exports to Russia in 2000 Poultry: $335 million (190 percent of the 1999 level) Aircraft: $197 million (2 aircraft, compared to 3 in 1999 and 14 in 1998) Oil/gas machinery and parts: $173 million ($158 million in 1999) Uranium: $132.49 million (almost nothing in 1999) Corn and Wheat: $108.6 million (down 50 percent from 1999) Computers and components: $91 million (nearly 30 percent increase over 1999) Beef and Pork: $167 million (nearly double the value of 1999) Telecom Equipment: $62.38 million (nearly 20 percent growth) Electrical Machinery (non-telecom): $76.5 million (50 percent growth) Other Machinery: $283 million (small decline) Leading U.S. Imports from Russia -Platinum (palladium): $2.25 billion (32 percent increase) -Aluminum, unwrought: $1.3 billion (11 percent increase) -Uranium: $941 million (up 60 percent after a 43 percent increase in 1999) -Oil: $829 million, of which non-crude was valued at $750 million (up 58 % in dollar value) -Crab: $151 million (7 percent growth) and Fish fillets: $81 million (down 36 percent) -Iron/Steel: $488 million, of which semi-finished iron accounted for $157 million -Clothing, woven and knit: $260 million (double the level in 1999) -Nickel, unwrought: $156 million (more than doubled) and Copper: $115 million -Paintings: $95 million ($10 million in 1999) My source: .
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chicom_guy    RE:US-Russian Trade   7/1/2004 2:51:24 AM
Currently, about 80% of export volumes accounts for raw materials and semi-finished goods. The main items of Russia's export shipments to the US are precious stones and metals (25% of the overall exports), aluminum and aluminum products (20%), ferrous metals (13%), inorganic chemicals (10%), crude oil and oil products (3%). In 2001 exports of Russian machinery and equipment totaled 5.7%. A whooping 5.7% of Russian good to the U.S is actually manufactured, and 80% being natural resources. And you were saying?
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swhitebull    RE:Russia is being crippled by the U.S   7/1/2004 5:49:03 AM
..The U.S is trying to cripple the Russian state through economic means. .... Sorry, you are about 3 presidents too late on that assertion. Been there, done that already under President Reagan. That's why it's sometimes called the FORMER SOVIET UNION. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. What YOU are incapable of seeing or understanding is that the goal under the past 3 presidents is to bring the FSU up from a 3rd rate country to a 1st class country, through economic, political and social ties. Trade has actually increased under the last 2 presidents, NOT declined, and the goal of bringing a more stable, democratic-inclined nation has - and is- being accomplished, albeit in fits and starts. Your analysis is right out of the Marxist-maoist little book of capitalist imperialist oppression of the masses. Sorry, dont buy in to that discredited theory of colonialist exploitation - it hasnt been in fashion since the fall of the Soviet Empire. What you dont see is the expansion of capital and freedom - again, with mistakes - that the fall of communism and dictatorship in the FSU has created opportunities for creativity that has been unleashed among its populace. THis is what drives you crazy about the strategy - It's succeeding. swhitebull
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doggtag    RE:Russia is being crippled by the U.S   7/1/2004 6:26:11 AM
tell me, chicom_guy: if you, as a representative of china, being so concerned with the Russian economy, can you confirm that china has ALWAYS paid TOP DOLLAR for evey piece of soviet/russian hardware in chinese inventory? Did china pay TOP DOLLAR for every ounce of research and technical assistance china received from Russia? I don't even need to see any paper statistics to KNOW that cheap china paid cheap prices. Of course, you're welcome to prove me wrong. And truthfully, I could almost guarantee that Putin PREFERS economics with the US, because he is well aware that he gets a better deal when dealing with the US. And just how much support has china given him in his struggles with terrorism in his country? So tell me, have you made your move on the Kazakhstan or Kyrgyzstan boards yet? Perhaps after years of Russian "occupation", they will fall in favor to your vile propaganda, "be one with china! submit to china's will!".
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SGTObvious    Still waiting for proof, Chicom!   7/1/2004 4:38:27 PM
You were saying? You gave a bunch of statistics, and I agree that Russian trade to the US is more raw material than finished goods or services, but this is not evidence of a US plot or intention, this is merely proof that capitalism works. Read Adam Smith to find out why nations export what they do. We buy Chinese goods because Chinese slave labor is very cheap. Russians no longer enslave their own people. But still, no evidence of any scheme, plan or intention. It simply is. You might as well claim the US plans to control the rotation of the Earth, and use as proof the fact that the sunsets and sunrises occur in accordance with American calendars. Relationship does not create cause and effect. Pandas do not create bamboo!
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SGTObvious    RAnd by the way, Chicom, educate yourself.   7/1/2004 4:44:53 PM
Aluminum is a manufactured product. Conversion of Bauxide to Aluminum takes massive industrial plants and lots of electric power- it is the most energy intensive form of refining. A lot of real work goes into the making of Aluminum, so to claim it is merely a raw material misses a lot of reality. Ah, but what does a communist know of economic reality? Hey, did you hear the story about what happened when the Chinese Communist Party to have rural party leaders work in teams with their urban counterparts? Yes, the project was called "The Country Maoist and the City Maoist". And if you get that, you're not Chinese!
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doggtag    here kitty kitty   7/1/2004 10:46:52 PM
no, chicom_guy, it's not supper time, either. As progression is often driven by the quest for profit, it will be catpitalism that eventually eliminates the communist vermin infestation. For example, Cuba: as soon as el Presidente and most of his old time party boys have passed away, the newer and younger political staff knows well enough the importance of re-establishing economic ties with the US. The Cuban population would be more than willing to embrace a larger prtion of western standards of living and ideals instead of clinging to the dead ideologies like cParty gPropagandist is trying to push. It's not exploitation, because it effectively is offering a plethora of opportunities and benefits they haven't had a lot of before, just as all who side with the US and embrace western ideologies (technically, it would that the party is losing ground in china faster than they want to admit)..
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roadcop    To SGTObvious   7/2/2004 2:52:46 AM
Well said! (Especially about aluminium) But certainly it should be more interesting when US will buy Russian-produced notebooks, pocket-PCs or cellphones (likely not this century). BTW, do US buy our Rocket Engines? I heard that a couple of years ago in news.
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elcid    RE:Russia is being crippled by the U.S   7/2/2004 5:31:13 AM
You just make this stuff up, right? When there was doubt about Russia feeding its population two years running, in the winter, it was Germany and the USA that fed them. Today, the state with the closest air and sea links to Russia is Alaska - and we have a lot of trade. We are developing industries allowed to rot by the communists. And we are trying to rebuild the social infrastructure - which in the Far East was pretty dismal. [The family has all but disappeared, and the effects of this are horrible: over a certain age the average Russian is an alcoholic.] Russia and the USA are natural allies. There is no reason to fear an invasion - it is too far and the terrain too forbidding. So we can get together whenever it is convenient, as we have before. Why should the USA wish a weak Russia? It makes no geostrategic sense. Better a strong Russia to help keep China from becoming too dangerous. British historian Parkinson (of Parkinson's Law fame) says Russia will defend Europe from the NEXT Chinese invasion. Hope so.
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